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> China accounted for a third of the cars sold in 2022 Yet they have almost the same number of cars as the US, with 4 times the population.

janalsncm 3y ago
This misses the point. It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. I’m a fan of bullet trains myself. I think it’s way smoother than flying and I wish the US could build some high speed rail. But the reality is, even in places with great public transit like Singapore, people still use cars. What matters is that cars kill people and automated safety systems (up to and including self-driving) can make them safer.
- selcuka 3y ago
  > It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. This sounds like the Nirvana fallacy [1]. The dilemma is not about eliminating all cars. It is whether we should invest in public transit which would also reduce noise, pollution, energy usage, or in self driving cars, which won't fix any of those. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
  - janalsncm 3y ago
    Suggesting that we completely replace cars with public transportation is indeed the Nirvana fallacy. It’s not going to happen in any reasonable time frame, nor is it politically viable or practical. Instead, we should focus on making cars safer.
- einr 3y ago
  This misses the point. It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. Eliminate, no -- but alleviate, definitely. Fewer cars on the roads means safer roads. By offering viable public transportation it does not really matter if everyone has or needs a car -- people will choose to use it less on average. Finland has a comparable number of vehicles per capita to the US and is a sparsely populated country where large portions of the population need cars to get where they need to go. Yet Finland has 5 traffic-related deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles per year while USA has 16.5 -- over three times as many. I would wager this is both because of better road quality with safety built in (like pedestrian safety features and roundabouts, etc.) as well as less use of those vehicles thanks to functional public transport.

janalsncm 3y ago

This misses the point. It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. I’m a fan of bullet trains myself. I think it’s way smoother than flying and I wish the US could build some high speed rail. But the reality is, even in places with great public transit like Singapore, people still use cars. What matters is that cars kill people and automated safety systems (up to and including self-driving) can make them safer.

selcuka 3y ago
> It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. This sounds like the Nirvana fallacy [1]. The dilemma is not about eliminating all cars. It is whether we should invest in public transit which would also reduce noise, pollution, energy usage, or in self driving cars, which won't fix any of those. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
- janalsncm 3y ago
  Suggesting that we completely replace cars with public transportation is indeed the Nirvana fallacy. It’s not going to happen in any reasonable time frame, nor is it politically viable or practical. Instead, we should focus on making cars safer.
einr 3y ago
This misses the point. It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem. Eliminate, no -- but alleviate, definitely. Fewer cars on the roads means safer roads. By offering viable public transportation it does not really matter if everyone has or needs a car -- people will choose to use it less on average. Finland has a comparable number of vehicles per capita to the US and is a sparsely populated country where large portions of the population need cars to get where they need to go. Yet Finland has 5 traffic-related deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles per year while USA has 16.5 -- over three times as many. I would wager this is both because of better road quality with safety built in (like pedestrian safety features and roundabouts, etc.) as well as less use of those vehicles thanks to functional public transport.