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> What happened around that time, in 2010 or so, that I mentioned? Well, the area of front-end work, which has been heavily gendered as "feminine" work, was fin

> What happened around that time, in 2010 or so, that I mentioned? Well, the area of front-end work, which has been heavily gendered as "feminine" work, was finally being viewed as "serious" or "real" programming* because, to no one's surprise, something that is designed well is good for business. I disagree, what happened was that javascript got fast and now everyone wanted web apps instead of web pages. Web designers makes web pages, documents with little javascript. Web developers makes web apps with huge amounts of javascript. They are two very different roles, it makes sense to have different job titles for them.

upupupandaway 3y ago
Bootstrap launched, that is what happened.
tipiirai 3y ago
But we still have web pages and someone needs to design them. I think the question of why the term "Web designer" is no longer used is a legit one.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Because the web developers added so many build steps to the process that a dedicated web designer can no longer add pages and tie them together on their own without also being a web developer. Then why call people who can do both developers? Because developers are paid more than designers, so people who can do both prefer the developer title. This means that there is no longer anyone who is called web designer.
  - tipiirai 3y ago
    > Because the web developers added so many build steps Haha. I'm afraid you are right.
golergka 3y ago
This. I make web apps. This means that I have to know about Docker and Kubernetes (because our deployment is complex), protocol buffers (because our services talk to one another), Kafka (because they talk asynchronously), parsing abstract syntax trees (because apps that I do are IDEs), git and its internals and filesystems (not only to work on our source code, but because our apps actually launch some git commands behind the scenes), SQL and quirks of different OLTP and OLAP databases, Rust, Python, Go and other programming languages, WebGL and other 3d rendering topics like writing shaders and projection matrices, processing RTL texts, emojis and all other wonderful aspects of unicode (including utf16 surrogate pairs), HTTP protocol, TCP, UDP and websockets... You know what I would do without? Keeping up to date with Photoshop, Illustrator and color circles. I'm still doing a lot of UX decisions, of course. But for the love of god, just give me sensible defaults and component library.
- tipiirai 3y ago
  Outch! Apparently Kafka and Rust are the tools for Web Designers these days.

upupupandaway 3y ago

Bootstrap launched, that is what happened.

tipiirai 3y ago

But we still have web pages and someone needs to design them. I think the question of why the term "Web designer" is no longer used is a legit one.

Jensson 3y ago
Because the web developers added so many build steps to the process that a dedicated web designer can no longer add pages and tie them together on their own without also being a web developer. Then why call people who can do both developers? Because developers are paid more than designers, so people who can do both prefer the developer title. This means that there is no longer anyone who is called web designer.
- tipiirai 3y ago
  > Because the web developers added so many build steps Haha. I'm afraid you are right.

golergka 3y ago

This. I make web apps. This means that I have to know about Docker and Kubernetes (because our deployment is complex), protocol buffers (because our services talk to one another), Kafka (because they talk asynchronously), parsing abstract syntax trees (because apps that I do are IDEs), git and its internals and filesystems (not only to work on our source code, but because our apps actually launch some git commands behind the scenes), SQL and quirks of different OLTP and OLAP databases, Rust, Python, Go and other programming languages, WebGL and other 3d rendering topics like writing shaders and projection matrices, processing RTL texts, emojis and all other wonderful aspects of unicode (including utf16 surrogate pairs), HTTP protocol, TCP, UDP and websockets... You know what I would do without? Keeping up to date with Photoshop, Illustrator and color circles. I'm still doing a lot of UX decisions, of course. But for the love of god, just give me sensible defaults and component library.

tipiirai 3y ago
Outch! Apparently Kafka and Rust are the tools for Web Designers these days.