5 ms·

If public transit can't be solved in SF, the second densest city in the US, there's no hope for the rest of America outside NYC. On average it takes close to t

If public transit can't be solved in SF, the second densest city in the US, there's no hope for the rest of America outside NYC. On average it takes close to twice as long to get from point A to B in SF using public transit than with Waymo. And for the walking portions you're likely dealing with either hills or sketchy areas.

kdmccormick 3y ago
Public transit can be solved in the US. Plenty of other countries have done it. That's why it's so exhausting that so many of our brightest minds AND the public's imagination of the future are dedicated to turning our unsustainably-car-centric cities into possibly-safer-but-still-unsustainably-car-centric cities instead of, you know, modern cities with good transit.
- TheDong 3y ago
  the fact that it's solved outside of the US is irrelevant here. the American Dream requires that each successful American owns a Car (and House, which is another reason American Cities can't be like other country's cities). they don't have to drive it, but since you have to own one, you might as well drive it, right? places like the uk, germany, china, japan, etc all have working public transit, but they don't have the American Dream, so it's not a valid comparison. the only people in America who will trade in their Car are the same people who might trade in their American Flag or Gun, which is to say the immigrants, poors, and other false-americans. no true American would ever give up their Car.
  - danny_codes 3y ago
    I appreciate the sarcasm! I agree though that there are a lot of crazy car-brains in the US. But I think the tide is shifting. Cities are pushing back against car infestation. If cities can get enough political will to de-car themselves, then inter-city transit will come back too.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    We don't need all Americans to give up their cars. We just need fewer people to drive in urban centers. Much of NYC, SF, Boston, DC and Chicago are already on board with this. They have been for decades. It's wannabe-suburbanites constantly driving through dense cities that's the problem, not Chuck from rural Maine driving to the town grocery store.
    - dvngnt_ 3y ago
      WMATA sucks. a car is extremely useful in the dmv. too many service interruptions, doesn't work late night, underfunded, homeless, getting robbed by youth
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        I used to live in DC and took the DC Metro countless times. I never had or saw problems with crime, though perhaps it was because I was usually in northern Virginia and not the southeast part of DC. However, the level of service is not great; it takes too long between trains, it's really terrible later at night, and it just doesn't go that many places, so you need a car if your source or destination isn't close to the station or possibly a bus line. I will give them credit though: they finally extended the Silver line all the way to Dulles, so you don't need to take a taxi or special bus there now.
        dvngnt_ 3y ago
        I assume NoVA is fine, but parts of DC/PG county are rougher at night walking to and from stops. it's possible to rely on it, but there are a lot services outages that will mess you up
- decafninja 3y ago
  "Plenty of other countries" isn't the US. For reasons that have nothing to do with cars, the US will never achieve the clean, safe, reliable systems like you see in Asia that are often heralded as the posterchild of ideal public transit. Wave a magic wand materialize the Tokyo or Seoul subway system into an American metropolis, and within a short period of time, you'll see it devolve. We just cannot have nice things here. Ironically, the contingent of people that are most aggressive/ambitious about promoting public transit are often the same that are most against taking the (admittedly, not always the most pleasant) steps needed to sell the idea to the masses.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    You're making big assertions without giving any details. > Ironically, the contingent of people that are most aggressive/ambitious about promoting public transit are often the same that are most against taking the (admittedly, not always the most pleasant) steps needed to sell the idea to the masses. Like what?
    - decafninja 3y ago
      For example - ensuring there aren't crazy drug addicted homeless persons raging about murdering everyone on the train. When issues like that are brought up, common responses from the pro-transit crowd include: "The psycho is completely harmless, just let him be. He has every right to be on the subway too." "Cars kill people!. The psycho will never hurt anyone!" "We have to pass Medicare-for-all and pass unconditional housing-first policies first. Until then, we can't/shouldn't do anything to the psycho!" To be fair: I am sympathetic with some of the above. However such statements will not help you sell improving/expanding public transit to the American public. And I know not every pro-transit person is like this. But there seems to be a sizable overlap. Also, anecdotal, but since the pro-bike and pro-transit crowd also do overlap - I've noticed a lot of people take up commuting or just traveling by bicycle in NYC the past few years. But the most common reason I hear is to specifically avoid taking the subway as much as possible due to dangers.
      - 3y ago

kdmccormick 3y ago

Public transit can be solved in the US. Plenty of other countries have done it. That's why it's so exhausting that so many of our brightest minds AND the public's imagination of the future are dedicated to turning our unsustainably-car-centric cities into possibly-safer-but-still-unsustainably-car-centric cities instead of, you know, modern cities with good transit.

TheDong 3y ago
the fact that it's solved outside of the US is irrelevant here. the American Dream requires that each successful American owns a Car (and House, which is another reason American Cities can't be like other country's cities). they don't have to drive it, but since you have to own one, you might as well drive it, right? places like the uk, germany, china, japan, etc all have working public transit, but they don't have the American Dream, so it's not a valid comparison. the only people in America who will trade in their Car are the same people who might trade in their American Flag or Gun, which is to say the immigrants, poors, and other false-americans. no true American would ever give up their Car.
- danny_codes 3y ago
  I appreciate the sarcasm! I agree though that there are a lot of crazy car-brains in the US. But I think the tide is shifting. Cities are pushing back against car infestation. If cities can get enough political will to de-car themselves, then inter-city transit will come back too.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  We don't need all Americans to give up their cars. We just need fewer people to drive in urban centers. Much of NYC, SF, Boston, DC and Chicago are already on board with this. They have been for decades. It's wannabe-suburbanites constantly driving through dense cities that's the problem, not Chuck from rural Maine driving to the town grocery store.
  - dvngnt_ 3y ago
    WMATA sucks. a car is extremely useful in the dmv. too many service interruptions, doesn't work late night, underfunded, homeless, getting robbed by youth
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      I used to live in DC and took the DC Metro countless times. I never had or saw problems with crime, though perhaps it was because I was usually in northern Virginia and not the southeast part of DC. However, the level of service is not great; it takes too long between trains, it's really terrible later at night, and it just doesn't go that many places, so you need a car if your source or destination isn't close to the station or possibly a bus line. I will give them credit though: they finally extended the Silver line all the way to Dulles, so you don't need to take a taxi or special bus there now.
      - dvngnt_ 3y ago
        I assume NoVA is fine, but parts of DC/PG county are rougher at night walking to and from stops. it's possible to rely on it, but there are a lot services outages that will mess you up
decafninja 3y ago
"Plenty of other countries" isn't the US. For reasons that have nothing to do with cars, the US will never achieve the clean, safe, reliable systems like you see in Asia that are often heralded as the posterchild of ideal public transit. Wave a magic wand materialize the Tokyo or Seoul subway system into an American metropolis, and within a short period of time, you'll see it devolve. We just cannot have nice things here. Ironically, the contingent of people that are most aggressive/ambitious about promoting public transit are often the same that are most against taking the (admittedly, not always the most pleasant) steps needed to sell the idea to the masses.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  You're making big assertions without giving any details. > Ironically, the contingent of people that are most aggressive/ambitious about promoting public transit are often the same that are most against taking the (admittedly, not always the most pleasant) steps needed to sell the idea to the masses. Like what?
  - decafninja 3y ago
    For example - ensuring there aren't crazy drug addicted homeless persons raging about murdering everyone on the train. When issues like that are brought up, common responses from the pro-transit crowd include: "The psycho is completely harmless, just let him be. He has every right to be on the subway too." "Cars kill people!. The psycho will never hurt anyone!" "We have to pass Medicare-for-all and pass unconditional housing-first policies first. Until then, we can't/shouldn't do anything to the psycho!" To be fair: I am sympathetic with some of the above. However such statements will not help you sell improving/expanding public transit to the American public. And I know not every pro-transit person is like this. But there seems to be a sizable overlap. Also, anecdotal, but since the pro-bike and pro-transit crowd also do overlap - I've noticed a lot of people take up commuting or just traveling by bicycle in NYC the past few years. But the most common reason I hear is to specifically avoid taking the subway as much as possible due to dangers.
    - 3y ago