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> entity that made, invested & owns the device in question They made have made and investors in the device, but they sure as shit don’t own it once they sell i

> entity that made, invested & owns the device in question They made have made and investors in the device, but they sure as shit don’t own it once they sell it to me. It’s absolutely ludicrous that anyone can describe their relationship to a device as “ownership” after the sale. We’ve given up so much as consumers. We’re in such an abusive relationship that we can’t even _see_ what a normal and healthy consumer relationship with these companies would actually look like.

autoexec 3y ago
> but they sure as shit don’t own it once they sell it to me. Are you really sure about that? Apple can, at any time, and without any permission from you, remotely access your device and make changes including : reverting settings you've intentionally configured Adding software Removing software Changing the way already installed software works Disable features you're using Enable features you don't want View/modify/delete "your" files Restrict your access to access certain files/features/software Brick your entire device In what way really is the cell phone in your pocket "yours"? Your ability to use a cell phone you paid for is entirely dependent a company granting you permission and you are totally powerless to prevent them from revoking that permission if they wanted to. "Your" device is already filled with encrypted storage and software you can't access but others can, along with chips from companies like Intel, Qualcomm, Broadcom, etc. that you cannot access, modify, or control but which can be remotely accessed to execute code on "your" device or transmit data collected from "your device" without your knowledge or consent It really doesn't matter if your phone is apple or android. Under no sane definition of "ownership" do you own your cell phone. You are, at best, a low privileged user of someone else's system. It doesn't matter how benevolent the true owners of "your" cell phone are. It doesn't matter if they've never cut you off from your device entirely, or if every update they've ever silently installed has been something you approved of after the fact. It doesn't matter if they never do anything you object to with their device. It's still their device. They allow you to use it after you paid for it because it's profitable for them that you do use it and for no other reason. Sure, your cell phone manufacture can't come into your home and take the brick of plastic metal and glass you paid for away from you, but it doesn't matter because they don't have to do that. They can take all of it's functionality away from you without ever physically touching it and if they ever do it'll be left useless to you for anything other than scrap or parts.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  That’s kinda my point. That’s the abusive relationship. I am the legal owner of the device, however. That part is still true. If you ask any Court in the United States who is the owner of the device, they will tell you that I am the owner and that Apple is not.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

autoexec 3y ago

> but they sure as shit don’t own it once they sell it to me. Are you really sure about that? Apple can, at any time, and without any permission from you, remotely access your device and make changes including : reverting settings you've intentionally configured Adding software Removing software Changing the way already installed software works Disable features you're using Enable features you don't want View/modify/delete "your" files Restrict your access to access certain files/features/software Brick your entire device In what way really is the cell phone in your pocket "yours"? Your ability to use a cell phone you paid for is entirely dependent a company granting you permission and you are totally powerless to prevent them from revoking that permission if they wanted to. "Your" device is already filled with encrypted storage and software you can't access but others can, along with chips from companies like Intel, Qualcomm, Broadcom, etc. that you cannot access, modify, or control but which can be remotely accessed to execute code on "your" device or transmit data collected from "your device" without your knowledge or consent It really doesn't matter if your phone is apple or android. Under no sane definition of "ownership" do you own your cell phone. You are, at best, a low privileged user of someone else's system. It doesn't matter how benevolent the true owners of "your" cell phone are. It doesn't matter if they've never cut you off from your device entirely, or if every update they've ever silently installed has been something you approved of after the fact. It doesn't matter if they never do anything you object to with their device. It's still their device. They allow you to use it after you paid for it because it's profitable for them that you do use it and for no other reason. Sure, your cell phone manufacture can't come into your home and take the brick of plastic metal and glass you paid for away from you, but it doesn't matter because they don't have to do that. They can take all of it's functionality away from you without ever physically touching it and if they ever do it'll be left useless to you for anything other than scrap or parts.

ncallaway 3y ago
That’s kinda my point. That’s the abusive relationship. I am the legal owner of the device, however. That part is still true. If you ask any Court in the United States who is the owner of the device, they will tell you that I am the owner and that Apple is not.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]