4 ms·

I'd agree with you if X was actually maintained, but we need to accept that it isn't. And to be fair, 'one app can read another app's data' is a reasonable thin

I'd agree with you if X was actually maintained, but we need to accept that it isn't. And to be fair, 'one app can read another app's data' is a reasonable thing to break. For everything else XWayland is the intended path (imperfect as it is).

michaelmrose 3y ago
It's actually incredibly useful to have apps like window managers or apps that rely on manipulating user input like xcape read another apps data. In fact such are still possible just 10x as complicated as they now involve writing awful little programs in some combination of c and yaml instead of a dead simple single line shell invocation of a program. See https://gitlab.com/interception/linux/tools https://gitlab.com/interception/linux/tools The fact that this can work at all seems to suggest that its just as possible for malicious code running as user to compromise your security and the only thing actually broken is useful apps.
bsder 3y ago
> I'd agree with you if X was actually maintained, but we need to accept that it isn't. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy as the Wayland developers were the X11 developers. To be fair, I don't disagree with them. X11 was meant for a much different world. However, the Wayland developers have made some significant architectural mistakes. Fractional DPI for scaling is a clusterfsck. The memory ownership model is disastrous and makes communicating with languages other than C/C++ actively problematic. I can go on and on. Wayland, itself, needs more than a little bit of reboot at this point. Vulkan/DX12/Metal has won--Wayland should be built around those abstractions. WASM seems to be handling interop and bootstrap better and better--it should probably be based around that rather than DBus. Mouse/Touch/event/etc. management needs to be rethought and probably refactored as much as possible out of Wayland. etc. I suspect a lot of the problem is of the same origin, everybody wants to have unified abstractions for mobile/web and desktop. The Wayland/Gnome people do not want to have to write code twice--once for mobile/web and once for deksptop. In reality that turns into mobile/web abstractions for everything and desktop can go suck eggs.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  WASM isn't an IPC mechanism. DBus makes much more sense to use.

michaelmrose 3y ago

It's actually incredibly useful to have apps like window managers or apps that rely on manipulating user input like xcape read another apps data. In fact such are still possible just 10x as complicated as they now involve writing awful little programs in some combination of c and yaml instead of a dead simple single line shell invocation of a program. See https://gitlab.com/interception/linux/tools https://gitlab.com/interception/linux/tools The fact that this can work at all seems to suggest that its just as possible for malicious code running as user to compromise your security and the only thing actually broken is useful apps.

bsder 3y ago

> I'd agree with you if X was actually maintained, but we need to accept that it isn't. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy as the Wayland developers were the X11 developers. To be fair, I don't disagree with them. X11 was meant for a much different world. However, the Wayland developers have made some significant architectural mistakes. Fractional DPI for scaling is a clusterfsck. The memory ownership model is disastrous and makes communicating with languages other than C/C++ actively problematic. I can go on and on. Wayland, itself, needs more than a little bit of reboot at this point. Vulkan/DX12/Metal has won--Wayland should be built around those abstractions. WASM seems to be handling interop and bootstrap better and better--it should probably be based around that rather than DBus. Mouse/Touch/event/etc. management needs to be rethought and probably refactored as much as possible out of Wayland. etc. I suspect a lot of the problem is of the same origin, everybody wants to have unified abstractions for mobile/web and desktop. The Wayland/Gnome people do not want to have to write code twice--once for mobile/web and once for deksptop. In reality that turns into mobile/web abstractions for everything and desktop can go suck eggs.

charcircuit 3y ago
WASM isn't an IPC mechanism. DBus makes much more sense to use.