3 ms·

Dyalog APL Keyboard Layouts

31 points by susam 3y ago

jodrellblank 3y ago
Should you wish to type them on a normal keyboard: - https://abrudz.github.io/lb/apl https://abrudz.github.io/lb/apl has a browser bookmarklet which adds an APL language bar to the top of any web page so you can type in any input box with backtick prefixes. - https://github.com/abrudz/Kbd https://github.com/abrudz/Kbd has a Windows Input Method Editor (IME) that adds system-wide RightAlt+letter combos. (There is a variant of the bookmarklet for the BQN array language's symbols at https://abrudz.github.io/lb/bqn https://abrudz.github.io/lb/bqn )
chewxy 3y ago
If you use an ErgodoxEZ I've actually implemented the layout: https://github.com/chewxy/keyboards/tree/main/ergodox-ez https://github.com/chewxy/keyboards/tree/main/ergodox-ez I have one for zmk too but I haven't committed/pushed it yet
armchairhacker 3y ago
I know people still use COBOL, but does any important software use APL nowadays? From Wikipedia: > APL is used for many purposes including financial and insurance applications,[82] artificial intelligence,[83][84] neural networks[85] and robotics.[86] It has been argued that APL is a calculation tool and not a programming language;[87] its symbolic nature and array capabilities have made it popular with domain experts and data scientists[88] who do not have or require the skills of a computer programmer.[citation needed] But the latest citation is from 2018, and some of these are just tutorials or articles.
- DrDroop 3y ago
  I don't think I'd enjoy writing COBOL but array programming is actually fun to do. The experience is very refreshing compared to the verbose clean-code Software Engineering orthodoxy that seems all prevailing these days. A language that doesn't change the way you think is not worth learning, and that is definably the case with APL and its successors. It is more a tool for power users that type symbols as their way to interact with a computer
- duskwuff 3y ago
  > does any important software use APL nowadays? No. There may be some niche applications and specific businesses which use APL, but I don't think there are any fields where it's commonly used. As you've noticed, the Wikipedia article is really just cherry-picking specific instances where it has been used, some of which are 30+ years old.
  - oleks 3y ago
    >> does any important software use APL nowadays? > No. That's not a question one is able to answer objectively in this world full of closed source software. Large parts of SimCorp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCorp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCorp) Dimension, a suite of software for investment management used by a fair number of European banks and pensions funds, are written in APL. That said, Dyalog exists, and SimCorp does not play any grand role in its existence. So there must be others out there. The mere existence of APL keyboards is proof that there is a market for these things.
    - bear8642 3y ago
      > So there must be others out there Indeed, quite frightening at times seeing the value of firms using Dyalog APL.
- nvy 3y ago
  I've only ever seen APL used for Advent of Code or similar. It's probably pretty neat given how concise you can be (or perhaps terse might be a better term), but honestly it seems like the ultimate write-only language given its peculiar choice of symbology. Based on TFA it seems like you'd need to constantly hold CTRL to accomplish even the most trivial of tasks in APL so I question the viability/utility of it. But in spite of all that it's still a cool programming curio to my mind.
  - drbaba 3y ago
    There is also the J language [1], which I understand to be a GPL reimplementation of APL. Since they went with pure ASCII, you presumably have to hold down modifier keys less. I never used either language, so can’t comment on how useful they are. But I’ve always been fascinated with APL as an idea, especially after watching this [2] person implement Game of Life as a compact one-liner in APL! (With that compact code, maybe you press modifiers less overall than when writing more traditional/verbose languages?) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) [2]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4
- augustk 3y ago
  https://www.dyalog.com/case-studies/healthcare.htm https://www.dyalog.com/case-studies/healthcare.htm

31 points by susam 3y ago

Should you wish to type them on a normal keyboard: - https://abrudz.github.io/lb/apl https://abrudz.github.io/lb/apl has a browser bookmarklet which adds an APL language bar to the top of any web page so you can type in any input box with backtick prefixes. - https://github.com/abrudz/Kbd https://github.com/abrudz/Kbd has a Windows Input Method Editor (IME) that adds system-wide RightAlt+letter combos. (There is a variant of the bookmarklet for the BQN array language's symbols at https://abrudz.github.io/lb/bqn https://abrudz.github.io/lb/bqn )

chewxy 3y ago

If you use an ErgodoxEZ I've actually implemented the layout: https://github.com/chewxy/keyboards/tree/main/ergodox-ez https://github.com/chewxy/keyboards/tree/main/ergodox-ez I have one for zmk too but I haven't committed/pushed it yet

armchairhacker 3y ago

I know people still use COBOL, but does any important software use APL nowadays? From Wikipedia: > APL is used for many purposes including financial and insurance applications,[82] artificial intelligence,[83][84] neural networks[85] and robotics.[86] It has been argued that APL is a calculation tool and not a programming language;[87] its symbolic nature and array capabilities have made it popular with domain experts and data scientists[88] who do not have or require the skills of a computer programmer.[citation needed] But the latest citation is from 2018, and some of these are just tutorials or articles.

DrDroop 3y ago
I don't think I'd enjoy writing COBOL but array programming is actually fun to do. The experience is very refreshing compared to the verbose clean-code Software Engineering orthodoxy that seems all prevailing these days. A language that doesn't change the way you think is not worth learning, and that is definably the case with APL and its successors. It is more a tool for power users that type symbols as their way to interact with a computer
duskwuff 3y ago
> does any important software use APL nowadays? No. There may be some niche applications and specific businesses which use APL, but I don't think there are any fields where it's commonly used. As you've noticed, the Wikipedia article is really just cherry-picking specific instances where it has been used, some of which are 30+ years old.
- oleks 3y ago
  >> does any important software use APL nowadays? > No. That's not a question one is able to answer objectively in this world full of closed source software. Large parts of SimCorp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCorp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCorp) Dimension, a suite of software for investment management used by a fair number of European banks and pensions funds, are written in APL. That said, Dyalog exists, and SimCorp does not play any grand role in its existence. So there must be others out there. The mere existence of APL keyboards is proof that there is a market for these things.
  - bear8642 3y ago
    > So there must be others out there Indeed, quite frightening at times seeing the value of firms using Dyalog APL.
nvy 3y ago
I've only ever seen APL used for Advent of Code or similar. It's probably pretty neat given how concise you can be (or perhaps terse might be a better term), but honestly it seems like the ultimate write-only language given its peculiar choice of symbology. Based on TFA it seems like you'd need to constantly hold CTRL to accomplish even the most trivial of tasks in APL so I question the viability/utility of it. But in spite of all that it's still a cool programming curio to my mind.
- drbaba 3y ago
  There is also the J language [1], which I understand to be a GPL reimplementation of APL. Since they went with pure ASCII, you presumably have to hold down modifier keys less. I never used either language, so can’t comment on how useful they are. But I’ve always been fascinated with APL as an idea, especially after watching this [2] person implement Game of Life as a compact one-liner in APL! (With that compact code, maybe you press modifiers less overall than when writing more traditional/verbose languages?) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) [2]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4
augustk 3y ago
https://www.dyalog.com/case-studies/healthcare.htm https://www.dyalog.com/case-studies/healthcare.htm