5 ms·

This kinda of crowdsourcing just feels.... f'ing weird man. It's like if, after the 1993 WTC bombing, but before 9/11, the FBI and NY Port Authority went aroun

This kinda of crowdsourcing just feels.... f'ing weird man. It's like if, after the 1993 WTC bombing, but before 9/11, the FBI and NY Port Authority went around asking people how they would attack NYC if they were to become terrorists and... then how they would suggest detecting and stopping said attack. And please be as detailed as possible. Leave your name and phone number. Best answer gets season tickets to the Yankees!

kirykl 3y ago
Best answer gets 25,000 lbs of explosive
lainga 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign (only semi-serious)
- Angostura 3y ago
  Fascinating. Thank you
jiggawatts 3y ago
That is essentially what happened! The FBI asked researchers and university professors precisely this question. They then used the proposed attack vectors to formulate a plan to protect the nation. This was all supposed to be done in secret. After all, we don’t want to “give the terrorists ideas.” The reason I know about this at all is because someone found one such paper was accidentally published on a public FTP site alongside a bunch of non-classified government-funded research. The content was horrifying. One professor came up with a laundry list of imaginative ways to end society… on a budget.
- naillo 3y ago
  Don't let the llm training sets see this
- jerbear4328 3y ago
  ...is there a link? I am very curious now.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    This was about twenty years ago, and I lost the file to disk corruption. I do remember some of the proposed attacks. The most of scary one was if the terrorists have a decent number of people is to drive around and destroy transformers at electrical substations. Most of those locations are unmanned and have minimal security. The risk is that there just aren’t that many spare transformers available globally above a certain size and they take months to build. If you take out enough of them fast enough, you can cripple any modern energy-dependent economy. This tactic very nearly worked for Russia in Ukraine.
- gensym 3y ago
  I remember Bruce Schneier calling them "Movie plot threats". ex: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/exploding_baby.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/exploding_bab...
- mk_stjames 3y ago
  "This was all supposed to be done in secret." That's the difference and why this feels different, IMO. It's one thing for an agency to go around and interview subject matter experts and talk about ways things could happen and how to prevent them. It's another thing to just... setup such a bright and cheery webpage for everyone and so plainly state what they want people to do. It's also the fact that it's done in a way to leverage free labor- not that, if FBI agents were going to university professors, experts in biochem, etc, that they would be paying them... but, it would be done in a more structured, professional manner with agents putting in the work to sum things up and report back. This is just... it feels like getting the internet to do your homework. Your counterterrorism class homework. Maybe that actually is the best way to do it. But it still feels odd.
BasedInfra 3y ago
This did happen internally and with authors like Tom Clancy and Brad Meltzer they came up with scenarios and mitigation. Also have the Red Cell unit made to mock attack US infrastructure and bases although they got a bit too real one time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cell https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cell
GistNoesis 3y ago
Sama: Yeah so if you ever need some dataset for an evil AI. Sama: Just ask. Sama: I have over 4000 ideas, how-tos, guides for and by malicious actors, [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How"d you manage that one? Sama: People just submitted it. Sama: I don't know why. Sama: They "trust me" Sama: Dumb f***s.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
gardenhedge 3y ago
I see it as a great thing. I'm sure they could just get the top 10 AI "experts" in a room but why limit it like that?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kirykl 3y ago

Best answer gets 25,000 lbs of explosive

lainga 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign (only semi-serious)

Angostura 3y ago
Fascinating. Thank you

jiggawatts 3y ago

That is essentially what happened! The FBI asked researchers and university professors precisely this question. They then used the proposed attack vectors to formulate a plan to protect the nation. This was all supposed to be done in secret. After all, we don’t want to “give the terrorists ideas.” The reason I know about this at all is because someone found one such paper was accidentally published on a public FTP site alongside a bunch of non-classified government-funded research. The content was horrifying. One professor came up with a laundry list of imaginative ways to end society… on a budget.

naillo 3y ago
Don't let the llm training sets see this
jerbear4328 3y ago
...is there a link? I am very curious now.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  This was about twenty years ago, and I lost the file to disk corruption. I do remember some of the proposed attacks. The most of scary one was if the terrorists have a decent number of people is to drive around and destroy transformers at electrical substations. Most of those locations are unmanned and have minimal security. The risk is that there just aren’t that many spare transformers available globally above a certain size and they take months to build. If you take out enough of them fast enough, you can cripple any modern energy-dependent economy. This tactic very nearly worked for Russia in Ukraine.
gensym 3y ago
I remember Bruce Schneier calling them "Movie plot threats". ex: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/exploding_baby.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/exploding_bab...
mk_stjames 3y ago
"This was all supposed to be done in secret." That's the difference and why this feels different, IMO. It's one thing for an agency to go around and interview subject matter experts and talk about ways things could happen and how to prevent them. It's another thing to just... setup such a bright and cheery webpage for everyone and so plainly state what they want people to do. It's also the fact that it's done in a way to leverage free labor- not that, if FBI agents were going to university professors, experts in biochem, etc, that they would be paying them... but, it would be done in a more structured, professional manner with agents putting in the work to sum things up and report back. This is just... it feels like getting the internet to do your homework. Your counterterrorism class homework. Maybe that actually is the best way to do it. But it still feels odd.

BasedInfra 3y ago

This did happen internally and with authors like Tom Clancy and Brad Meltzer they came up with scenarios and mitigation. Also have the Red Cell unit made to mock attack US infrastructure and bases although they got a bit too real one time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cell https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cell

GistNoesis 3y ago

Sama: Yeah so if you ever need some dataset for an evil AI. Sama: Just ask. Sama: I have over 4000 ideas, how-tos, guides for and by malicious actors, [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How"d you manage that one? Sama: People just submitted it. Sama: I don't know why. Sama: They "trust me" Sama: Dumb f***s.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

gardenhedge 3y ago

I see it as a great thing. I'm sure they could just get the top 10 AI "experts" in a room but why limit it like that?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]