6 ms·

To be spending a lot of time working in the rainforest in Peru where logging (legal and illegal) is everywhere, you can't trace properly. Certificates are easy

To be spending a lot of time working in the rainforest in Peru where logging (legal and illegal) is everywhere, you can't trace properly. Certificates are easy to forge, the entire pipeline is pen and paper. How can you tell once the legal wood and the illegal wood are in a container which is which? You can't. So many people here are outraged, how many of you are supporting on the ground teams protecting rainforests? If you care, do your research, support causes like https://www.junglekeepers.org https://www.junglekeepers.org (disclaimer here; that is the one I know, work for and support) and don't use exotic woods.

finite_depth 3y ago
I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  shotgun rfid?
  - theoreticalmal 3y ago
    That would only be useful until the mill, at which point the tags would be either destroyed, or limited to specific pieces and removed from the rest
- theoreticalmal 3y ago
  Not a bad idea! There would have to be a system for determining lumber that was previously illegal to cut but has since become legal. Maturity of the tree or land ownership changed, etc.
- noah_buddy 3y ago
  Or if there’s a way to ruin the wood for woodworking without killing the tree itself. It seems like you would need to do something really clever. Inject it with capsaicin?
  - wxnx 3y ago
    Tree spiking is one example of this. It's so common as to be illegal in the United States [1]. Unfortunately, without strict worker protections, it's conceivable that workers would be the ones to pay for their employers' (or their upstream suppliers') illegal actions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking
    - jrace 3y ago
      It's not just conceivable, it is real. Workers in the mill are the ones who will die or suffer significant trauma when the blade hits the spike.
      - wxnx 3y ago
        Eh, with one confirmed injury, I'm comfortable calling it "conceivable". The testimony of the injured worker in that case even reflects the fact that a spiked tree does not guarantee injury or death to the operator -- indeed, first there seems to be substantial damage to the machinery, and only then, a risk to the operator [1]: > Alexander later filed a lawsuit against Louisiana-Pacific claiming that the band saw had been weakened from previous strikes with nails, but that he was forced to work with the saw or face dismissal.
- asah 3y ago
  the counterattack: spray all the trees with the stuff.
earth2jason 3y ago
Unfortunately, their sites are not very friendly to privacy oriented browsers.
dheera 3y ago
I'm always torn between building things out of wood vs. other materials. I hate cutting down trees. But at the same time wood seems like a way to sequester carbon from the atmosphere into things that will last a very, very long time. It seems like I could build carbon-negative furniture out of wood, as opposed to carbon-positive furniture out of other materials. As long as those trees are re-planted. I want assurance that when I buy lumber it's regenerative.
- TylerH 3y ago
  If you buy pine or oak or cedar you can be pretty darn sure it is regenerative. That's how the industry is able to exist: they cut the same fields of trees every 15-30 years. If you're concerned, you can always plant a tree or two somewhere for every project you do that uses wood. There are lots of places that let you plant trees even outside your own property.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

finite_depth 3y ago

I wonder if there's a way to tag trees to stop this. Like, spray the protected wood with some harmless-but-detectable dose of a radioisotope so you can tell which wood is which.

hindsightbias 3y ago
shotgun rfid?
- theoreticalmal 3y ago
  That would only be useful until the mill, at which point the tags would be either destroyed, or limited to specific pieces and removed from the rest
theoreticalmal 3y ago
Not a bad idea! There would have to be a system for determining lumber that was previously illegal to cut but has since become legal. Maturity of the tree or land ownership changed, etc.
noah_buddy 3y ago
Or if there’s a way to ruin the wood for woodworking without killing the tree itself. It seems like you would need to do something really clever. Inject it with capsaicin?
- wxnx 3y ago
  Tree spiking is one example of this. It's so common as to be illegal in the United States [1]. Unfortunately, without strict worker protections, it's conceivable that workers would be the ones to pay for their employers' (or their upstream suppliers') illegal actions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking
  - jrace 3y ago
    It's not just conceivable, it is real. Workers in the mill are the ones who will die or suffer significant trauma when the blade hits the spike.
    - wxnx 3y ago
      Eh, with one confirmed injury, I'm comfortable calling it "conceivable". The testimony of the injured worker in that case even reflects the fact that a spiked tree does not guarantee injury or death to the operator -- indeed, first there seems to be substantial damage to the machinery, and only then, a risk to the operator [1]: > Alexander later filed a lawsuit against Louisiana-Pacific claiming that the band saw had been weakened from previous strikes with nails, but that he was forced to work with the saw or face dismissal.
asah 3y ago
the counterattack: spray all the trees with the stuff.

earth2jason 3y ago

Unfortunately, their sites are not very friendly to privacy oriented browsers.

dheera 3y ago

I'm always torn between building things out of wood vs. other materials. I hate cutting down trees. But at the same time wood seems like a way to sequester carbon from the atmosphere into things that will last a very, very long time. It seems like I could build carbon-negative furniture out of wood, as opposed to carbon-positive furniture out of other materials. As long as those trees are re-planted. I want assurance that when I buy lumber it's regenerative.

TylerH 3y ago
If you buy pine or oak or cedar you can be pretty darn sure it is regenerative. That's how the industry is able to exist: they cut the same fields of trees every 15-30 years. If you're concerned, you can always plant a tree or two somewhere for every project you do that uses wood. There are lots of places that let you plant trees even outside your own property.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]