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Fuck next.js. Honestly. Check out how it bundles and sends the entire react-dom library twice to every user on every page view https://github.com/vercel/next.js

by orf 3y ago

Fuck next.js. Honestly. Check out how it bundles and sends the entire react-dom library twice to every user on every page view https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/51508 https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/51508. Fuck 1MB of JS to render a static HTML page. Fuck the image component, and not being able to optimise your image unless you use their cloud service for no reason at all. Fuck spending 3 hours working out why you’re not able to use relative image paths in MDX files and have to shove everything in /public. Fuck fighting five layers of configuration and bundlers and libraries and GitHub issues to try and load a WASM file without having the whole thing break. Fuck some half-assed play at being a static site generator and a backend framework, that conveniently works best on your overpriced cloud service. Use Astro. It’s what next.js pretends to be https://astro.build/ https://astro.build/

richbell 3y ago
Tangent, but I hate projects that automatically lock issues.
veeti 3y ago
Can we get a fuck for these automatic "stale" issue locking bots too? Ridiculous.
- Shakahs 3y ago
  It really is counterproductive. If projects are going to take months to work on critical issues, they need to change the definition of "stale" to match, or just not auto-close issues at all. It accomplishes nothing and obscures the sign posts that would help the next developer that encounters the same issue.
euazOn 3y ago
Astro is great! As a tangent, do you have any favorite Astro resources to share, or great minds to follow?
rickstanley 3y ago
> Fuck 500kb of JS to render a static HTML page. Funny, trying to open the post's link (https://nextjs.org/blog/next-14 https://nextjs.org/blog/next-14) with JS disabled, it renders a "beautiful" blank page.
- PoignardAzur 3y ago
  Oh wow. I recently tried to rebuild my Jekyll blog with Nextjs. This felt way too hard for something that was basically a nunch of static pages, but I pushed through and ignored that feeling. This, though? It's confirmation that my type of use case wasn't a priority for this library.
CSMastermind 3y ago
Svelte seems to be popular with the frontend devs I talk to.
- johnnypangs 3y ago
  Fun fact: Vercel “owns” Svelte too. https://vercel.com/blog/vercel-welcomes-rich-harris-creator-of-svelte https://vercel.com/blog/vercel-welcomes-rich-harris-creator-...
  - azemetre 3y ago
    I know Rich Harris explicitly says, at least when Vercel ownership comes up, that he has a lot of leeway and total control of the project; is there any reason to think that Vercel will force Sveltekit to adopt similar things as Nextjs?
    - PKop 3y ago
      If there is tension between what Harris wants and Vercel's willingness to keep paying some of his bills, is a plausible reason.
  - bamazizi 3y ago
    No that's not true! Svelte is a standalone project. Rich Harris, the founder and face behind Svelte, is paid by Vercel to work on it full-time. From the same link above: >> "Joining Vercel enables Rich to work on Svelte full-time, giving the project its first dedicated contributor. The governance of Svelte does not and will not change – it's still the same independent, open-source project and community. With Vercel's backing, Svelte can get even more ambitious."
ushakov 3y ago
This comment reminds me of GatsbyJS. Same issues and we all know what happened…
tirey 3y ago
I'll do you one better: use hyperwave. https://github.com/tireymorris/hyperwave https://github.com/tireymorris/hyperwave It allows you to build full-SSR apps with Tailwind and JSX, has support for SQLite and HTMX, and is in general a great return to how web dev used to be / should be.
csomar 3y ago
> This closed issue has been automatically locked because it had no new activity for a month. If you are running into a similar issue, please create a new issue with the steps to reproduce. Thank you. This is gold level comedy. I am not sure how no one in the tech industry is seeing this.
cyral 3y ago
The image component works fine when self-hosting, I use it on several production sites. What is it that doesn't work well without their cloud service? The default bundle size is also nowhere near 1MB. Next 13 and server components entire point is to reduce the bundle size by not shipping JS that is only ever called on the server.
- leerob 3y ago
  next/image optimization works by default when self-hosting. You can optionally use basically any image service you want through a “loader file”. https://nextjs.org/docs/app/api-reference/components/image#loaderfile https://nextjs.org/docs/app/api-reference/components/image#l...
  - orf 3y ago
    > Instead of optimizing images at build time, Next.js optimizes images on-demand as users request them.
- orf 3y ago
  How do I optimise and convert all my static image files to webp with a PNG fallback, then render them as a srcset so the client can pick the best image? I.e everything that’s done here[1] Oh no. You can’t. You need to set “images.unoptimized = true” and be happy about it if you’re not using a cloud image service. 1. https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/images/#properties https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/images/#properties
  - cyral 3y ago
    I'm not sure why this is your experience, but the site I am referencing does exactly that. The images are even being pulled from an external domain. They are not PNGs but I am not sure if that makes a difference (they are 100 quality .webp), they get optimized to a lower quality and have srcset, no vercel involved because I do not want a dependency on Vercel.
  - 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV 3y ago
Palmik 3y ago
Some of my favorite examples of NextJs suddenly breaking major things in minor releases: Environment variables stopped working: https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53367 https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53367 The <Image> component stopped working: https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53715 https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53715 (Both of these were, afaik, exclusive to self-hosting, rather than running on Vercel)
kwar13 3y ago
> Fuck spending 3 hours working out why you’re not able to use relative image paths in MDX files and have to shove everything in public. Man this took me on a wild ride once.
- orf 3y ago
  Same. Another victim of the two-bundler problem?
afavour 3y ago
> Can you share what are you trying to do here? Are you trying to use the same version of react for pages and why? "and why"?! Staggering levels of negligence there.
flashgordon 3y ago
Ah this was me when I moved to next 13 and finally said fuck it and moved back to plain templates and some webpack (for ts for doing non ajaxy js). Even as a backend/platform I actually gave the modern JS ecosystem a really decent try (about 2 years on next/react alone). And before that I had written fairly complex fe code in typescript (granted these weren't doc oriented apps but were more like IDEs). The moment I had to serve static-ish sites the complexity just ballooned!

by orf 3y ago

richbell 3y ago

Tangent, but I hate projects that automatically lock issues.

veeti 3y ago

Can we get a fuck for these automatic "stale" issue locking bots too? Ridiculous.

Shakahs 3y ago
It really is counterproductive. If projects are going to take months to work on critical issues, they need to change the definition of "stale" to match, or just not auto-close issues at all. It accomplishes nothing and obscures the sign posts that would help the next developer that encounters the same issue.

euazOn 3y ago

Astro is great! As a tangent, do you have any favorite Astro resources to share, or great minds to follow?

rickstanley 3y ago

> Fuck 500kb of JS to render a static HTML page. Funny, trying to open the post's link (https://nextjs.org/blog/next-14 https://nextjs.org/blog/next-14) with JS disabled, it renders a "beautiful" blank page.

PoignardAzur 3y ago
Oh wow. I recently tried to rebuild my Jekyll blog with Nextjs. This felt way too hard for something that was basically a nunch of static pages, but I pushed through and ignored that feeling. This, though? It's confirmation that my type of use case wasn't a priority for this library.

CSMastermind 3y ago

Svelte seems to be popular with the frontend devs I talk to.

johnnypangs 3y ago
Fun fact: Vercel “owns” Svelte too. https://vercel.com/blog/vercel-welcomes-rich-harris-creator-of-svelte https://vercel.com/blog/vercel-welcomes-rich-harris-creator-...
- azemetre 3y ago
  I know Rich Harris explicitly says, at least when Vercel ownership comes up, that he has a lot of leeway and total control of the project; is there any reason to think that Vercel will force Sveltekit to adopt similar things as Nextjs?
  - PKop 3y ago
    If there is tension between what Harris wants and Vercel's willingness to keep paying some of his bills, is a plausible reason.
- bamazizi 3y ago
  No that's not true! Svelte is a standalone project. Rich Harris, the founder and face behind Svelte, is paid by Vercel to work on it full-time. From the same link above: >> "Joining Vercel enables Rich to work on Svelte full-time, giving the project its first dedicated contributor. The governance of Svelte does not and will not change – it's still the same independent, open-source project and community. With Vercel's backing, Svelte can get even more ambitious."

ushakov 3y ago

This comment reminds me of GatsbyJS. Same issues and we all know what happened…

tirey 3y ago

I'll do you one better: use hyperwave. https://github.com/tireymorris/hyperwave https://github.com/tireymorris/hyperwave It allows you to build full-SSR apps with Tailwind and JSX, has support for SQLite and HTMX, and is in general a great return to how web dev used to be / should be.

csomar 3y ago

> This closed issue has been automatically locked because it had no new activity for a month. If you are running into a similar issue, please create a new issue with the steps to reproduce. Thank you. This is gold level comedy. I am not sure how no one in the tech industry is seeing this.

cyral 3y ago

The image component works fine when self-hosting, I use it on several production sites. What is it that doesn't work well without their cloud service? The default bundle size is also nowhere near 1MB. Next 13 and server components entire point is to reduce the bundle size by not shipping JS that is only ever called on the server.

leerob 3y ago
next/image optimization works by default when self-hosting. You can optionally use basically any image service you want through a “loader file”. https://nextjs.org/docs/app/api-reference/components/image#loaderfile https://nextjs.org/docs/app/api-reference/components/image#l...
- orf 3y ago
  > Instead of optimizing images at build time, Next.js optimizes images on-demand as users request them.
orf 3y ago
How do I optimise and convert all my static image files to webp with a PNG fallback, then render them as a srcset so the client can pick the best image? I.e everything that’s done here[1] Oh no. You can’t. You need to set “images.unoptimized = true” and be happy about it if you’re not using a cloud image service. 1. https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/images/#properties https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/images/#properties
- cyral 3y ago
  I'm not sure why this is your experience, but the site I am referencing does exactly that. The images are even being pulled from an external domain. They are not PNGs but I am not sure if that makes a difference (they are 100 quality .webp), they get optimized to a lower quality and have srcset, no vercel involved because I do not want a dependency on Vercel.
- 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV 3y ago

Palmik 3y ago

Some of my favorite examples of NextJs suddenly breaking major things in minor releases: Environment variables stopped working: https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53367 https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53367 The <Image> component stopped working: https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53715 https://github.com/vercel/next.js/issues/53715 (Both of these were, afaik, exclusive to self-hosting, rather than running on Vercel)

kwar13 3y ago

> Fuck spending 3 hours working out why you’re not able to use relative image paths in MDX files and have to shove everything in public. Man this took me on a wild ride once.

orf 3y ago
Same. Another victim of the two-bundler problem?

afavour 3y ago

> Can you share what are you trying to do here? Are you trying to use the same version of react for pages and why? "and why"?! Staggering levels of negligence there.

flashgordon 3y ago

Ah this was me when I moved to next 13 and finally said fuck it and moved back to plain templates and some webpack (for ts for doing non ajaxy js). Even as a backend/platform I actually gave the modern JS ecosystem a really decent try (about 2 years on next/react alone). And before that I had written fairly complex fe code in typescript (granted these weren't doc oriented apps but were more like IDEs). The moment I had to serve static-ish sites the complexity just ballooned!