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"This is a pretty cool mod if you can't live without buttons in your car, but it obviously defeats the whole purpose of minimalism." I don't even agree that th

"This is a pretty cool mod if you can't live without buttons in your car, but it obviously defeats the whole purpose of minimalism." I don't even agree that the tablet is minimalism. The tablet interface is complicated, dense, and compact. That is not even what minimalism means, it's just the arrogant vision of one stupid futurist. (I know Musk is intelligent, but not nearly as much as he thinks he is, which is how I like to define stupidity. Perhaps I'm using it more as an opposite to "wise" than "intelligent"?) Minimalism is about having less detail. I mean technically minimalism is an art movement, but using it in the modern sense, minimalist car UI design would have to remove options that control things precisely. So unless the Tesla's tablet interface has fewer capabilities than a traditional dashboard, there's nothing minimalist about it. In some senses, it's less minimalist than a good traditional dashboard because it adds a very stupid layer of complexity.

nwsm 3y ago
"We moved all the options into a screen. That's minimalism right?" Sure, if your definition of minimalism is the physical aesthetic of the car when it's turned off and you don't need to interact with it in any way.
- Xymist 3y ago
  "The occupant doesn't need to interact with it in any way" is, I think, an actual design goal for Tesla. Not that they'll get there, probably, but to have people get in, touch nothing, and get out at their destination does fit the evident dream.
- rs999gti 3y ago
  > minimalism More like minimalism in terms of cost. A tablet can be used in many cars as an interface, the only cost is the different software for each model. No need to make molds and manufacture physical buttons and a console.
  - fgsfds028374 3y ago
    [dead]
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    That’s the real reason why it’s done, that and fewer components to install/fix.
  - warrenm 3y ago
    And making updates / fixes to said software is world's simpler/faster/cheaper than handling physical part recalls
pj_mukh 3y ago
Controversial Opinion: I think the tablet controls hidden behind extra menu buttons is just a stopgap until a GPT takeover of those controls. I should just be able to talk to the car to do what I need it to do. That would be truly minimalist.
- digging 3y ago
  I doubt that's controversial if we generalize from GPT to computer-control. Tesla has probably been banking on FSD this whole time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dmonitor 3y ago
  I’d much rather turn a knob than look to the passenger, say “hold on, stop talking so i can change the volume. car, turn down the volume… car, slightly turn up the volume” i find the noise level i want
  - keep_reading 3y ago
    Why would anyone design that? Only the things you're unlikely to use while driving should be strictly voice controlled
- callalex 3y ago
  You can already do that in a Tesla. Or pretty much any car in that price category. These days the understanding and responsiveness could be described as “pretty good”. But still nobody uses it because as long as you are able-bodied, voice control is a shitty interface. It requires you to keep context in your head of what the machine is thinking about (instead of whatever conversation you were already having). It requires you to interrupt any conversation you were currently having. It requires the system to give asynchronous confirmation that it fulfilled your request after you have made the request, instead of clicking while you are turning a dial or pushing a button. Anything with fine grain controls requires a back and forth dialogue, such as the volume problem a sibling commenter described. Sure, a better text model might be more graceful at handling a statement like “my windshield looks too foggy” but that’s really a tiny marginal improvement over what we already have and nobody uses.
sheepscreek 3y ago
> Minimalism is about having less detail. I think you’re onto something - the distinction between minimalism (philosophically) vs minimalistic design (the watered down version used colloquially). One is a way of living, another is cramming as many features as possible while keeping things intuitive. I’ve given this a lot of thought - and I know some people hated buttons/love the sleek aesthetics without them. Perhaps the reasonable thing would have been to offer it at an add-on/option. I am willing to bet this was debated internally. They likely dropped it in favour of the simple design to reduce costs/time/dependency and optimize the speed of manufacturing.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
When it comes to one-bit interfaces, a capacitive touch surface which has to be calibrated to align with human ideas about which distances count as "touch" is maximal to the extreme.
MisterTea 3y ago
> I don't even agree that the tablet is minimalism. The aesthetic minimalism defeats itself as it adds untold complexity turning what should be a simple switch into a cartoonish Rube Goldberg machine. It makes me sad that we are filling cars and just about everything else with e-waste so manufactures can keep a leash on our wallets.
gnatman 3y ago
> "This is a pretty cool mod if you can't live without buttons in your car, but it obviously defeats the whole purpose of minimalism." What IS the purpose of minimalism in this context, exactly?
- digging 3y ago
  There is no minimalism in this context, actually. So it's a meaningless question. Tesla just cut corners.
beambot 3y ago
I vastly prefer the tablet -- so I guess it's the arrogant preference of two stupid futurists.

nwsm 3y ago

"We moved all the options into a screen. That's minimalism right?" Sure, if your definition of minimalism is the physical aesthetic of the car when it's turned off and you don't need to interact with it in any way.

Xymist 3y ago
"The occupant doesn't need to interact with it in any way" is, I think, an actual design goal for Tesla. Not that they'll get there, probably, but to have people get in, touch nothing, and get out at their destination does fit the evident dream.
rs999gti 3y ago
> minimalism More like minimalism in terms of cost. A tablet can be used in many cars as an interface, the only cost is the different software for each model. No need to make molds and manufacture physical buttons and a console.
- fgsfds028374 3y ago
  [dead]
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  That’s the real reason why it’s done, that and fewer components to install/fix.
- warrenm 3y ago
  And making updates / fixes to said software is world's simpler/faster/cheaper than handling physical part recalls

pj_mukh 3y ago

Controversial Opinion: I think the tablet controls hidden behind extra menu buttons is just a stopgap until a GPT takeover of those controls. I should just be able to talk to the car to do what I need it to do. That would be truly minimalist.

digging 3y ago
I doubt that's controversial if we generalize from GPT to computer-control. Tesla has probably been banking on FSD this whole time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dmonitor 3y ago
I’d much rather turn a knob than look to the passenger, say “hold on, stop talking so i can change the volume. car, turn down the volume… car, slightly turn up the volume” i find the noise level i want
- keep_reading 3y ago
  Why would anyone design that? Only the things you're unlikely to use while driving should be strictly voice controlled
callalex 3y ago
You can already do that in a Tesla. Or pretty much any car in that price category. These days the understanding and responsiveness could be described as “pretty good”. But still nobody uses it because as long as you are able-bodied, voice control is a shitty interface. It requires you to keep context in your head of what the machine is thinking about (instead of whatever conversation you were already having). It requires you to interrupt any conversation you were currently having. It requires the system to give asynchronous confirmation that it fulfilled your request after you have made the request, instead of clicking while you are turning a dial or pushing a button. Anything with fine grain controls requires a back and forth dialogue, such as the volume problem a sibling commenter described. Sure, a better text model might be more graceful at handling a statement like “my windshield looks too foggy” but that’s really a tiny marginal improvement over what we already have and nobody uses.

sheepscreek 3y ago

> Minimalism is about having less detail. I think you’re onto something - the distinction between minimalism (philosophically) vs minimalistic design (the watered down version used colloquially). One is a way of living, another is cramming as many features as possible while keeping things intuitive. I’ve given this a lot of thought - and I know some people hated buttons/love the sleek aesthetics without them. Perhaps the reasonable thing would have been to offer it at an add-on/option. I am willing to bet this was debated internally. They likely dropped it in favour of the simple design to reduce costs/time/dependency and optimize the speed of manufacturing.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

When it comes to one-bit interfaces, a capacitive touch surface which has to be calibrated to align with human ideas about which distances count as "touch" is maximal to the extreme.

MisterTea 3y ago

> I don't even agree that the tablet is minimalism. The aesthetic minimalism defeats itself as it adds untold complexity turning what should be a simple switch into a cartoonish Rube Goldberg machine. It makes me sad that we are filling cars and just about everything else with e-waste so manufactures can keep a leash on our wallets.

gnatman 3y ago

> "This is a pretty cool mod if you can't live without buttons in your car, but it obviously defeats the whole purpose of minimalism." What IS the purpose of minimalism in this context, exactly?

digging 3y ago
There is no minimalism in this context, actually. So it's a meaningless question. Tesla just cut corners.

beambot 3y ago

I vastly prefer the tablet -- so I guess it's the arrogant preference of two stupid futurists.