4 ms·
Right, I'm just speaking for the "highly skilled" working class here. To put it into perspective, in Germany you might make 4k/month as a highly educated, high
by mcntsh 3y ago
Right, I'm just speaking for the "highly skilled" working class here.
To put it into perspective, in Germany you might make 4k/month as a highly educated, highly skilled worker with years of experience. Even if you work remote (most don't) you won't be able to find a decent small house even in the middle of nowhere below 500k.
- pillefitz 3y agoAfter tax, healthcare and pension, I make 80k Euros as a highly skilled tech worker in Germany. Living expenses including rent amount up to 20k per year, so I save 60k per year. Paying off a nice house therefore takes around 10 years, which is not bad at all. I recently visited the US and haven't been happier to be a EU citizen in a long time, tbh.
- mcntsh 3y agoSo you make 140k+ a year? That's an extremely high salary for Germany, you must be in the top 1-2% of earners in the country. Going by levels FYI, this would put you in the 95th percentile, the equivalent in NYC would be $400,000. Which is nuts combined with your 20k/yr living expenses. When did you get your apartment, 2009?
- pillefitz 3y agoYes, that's right. Unfortunately I don't own any property. Rent is around 1500-1800eur a month for a two person appartment in a bigger city
- dragonwriter 3y agoSo you make 140k+ a year? He said he made 80k Euros ($84.5k) and save 60k euros from that. Where do you get 140k+?
- mcntsh 3y ago80k net is around 140k gross.
- atomicUpdate 3y agoYou’re ignoring the “after tax” at the very beginning of his statement.
- gen220 3y agoJust for reference, converting to USD $150k be in the top 6-7% of earners in the U.S. in 2022. Taxation rates vary widely. I budget for ⅓ off the top, living in NYC (this is an overestimate, but common practice) for a post-tax income of $100k. High income geographies are correlated with high tax rates in the U.S., too. Anyways, all this to say that U.S. post-tax-post-benefits income is not wildly different from the E.U. Maybe the main difference is that you can work as a freelancer, expense everything, and effectively opt-out of health insurance, and take home more salary. But if you're salaried and in tech in the top quartile of the labor market, post-tax savings is pretty much the same in western EU vs U.S. There's no 10x difference in wages, (excluding equity performance, which is not a tax/benefits policy issue). In general, E.U. citizens I know who have come to the U.S. do it because the businesses here are more interesting and have more upside (i.e. the aforementioned equity upside component). If they're making bigger heaps of money, it's because of startup equity comp, not because of tax or benefits policies.
- mcntsh 3y agoLook if you normalize it across all jobs yes but I'm talking about specialized jobs. The ceiling is much higher in the US and it's not even close. A doctor might hope to make 140k towards the end of their career in Germany, a new grad will make this in the US. > But if you're salaried and in tech in the top quartile of the labor market, post-tax savings is pretty much the same in western EU vs U.S. There's no 10x difference in wages, (excluding equity performance, which is not a tax/benefits policy issue). As someone who's worked in top companies in Germany and the US, I feel confident enough to weigh in on this. Top earners might make 200k TC in Berlin, but engineers at this caliber will earn 500k+ in NYC. And no, rent and tipping in restaurants does not take up that 300k difference. > If they're making bigger heaps of money, it's because of startup equity comp, not because of tax or benefits policies. They're making more money because American companies pay more money, because they make more money, they have access to more capital, they hire in a more competitive market.
- yodsanklai 3y agoWorking for a Google/Meta as an L5 engineer in Europe take you in the 160-200K league. This would be 300-350K in NYC/Bay area for the same role and company. Considering living expenses and more vacation in Europe, it's not that different. A difference though is that you have many more opportunities in the US to match FAANG Salary than you have in let say France or Germany.
- mcntsh 3y agoIronically, these salaries are really mostly only attainable working for American companies. Some facts for anyone reading: - 350k is like 200k net in CA - 200k is ~110k net in Germany - ~90k post-tax difference - Germany: 25 days PTO min - Meta: 25-30 days PTO min - Google: 20 days PTO min Considering COL differences, you'd probably save 40-50k more in the US than Germany with these numbers. Maybe it's not significant enough to lose the EU lifestyle bonuses but it's also not nothing.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>After tax, healthcare and pension, I make 80k Euros as a highly skilled tech worker in Germany. That's insanely high post-tax salary for Germany. Most aren't making that before-tax. You're an exceptionably rare circumstance that's far from the norm.
- pillefitz 3y agoI wouldn't call it insanely high, given that my baseline is tech jobs. As a freelancer, you make around 800-1000$ a day working for bigger German companies, and the bar to become one is not very high from my experience on both sides of the table. For internal employees the ceiling is at around 120k for senior engineers, above that you need to go into middle management territory or be an EM equivalent.