4 ms·

> If there was a new continent somehow popped up we wouldn't be fine just sending some drones there or taking pictures of it with satellites. True. You know w

> If there was a new continent somehow popped up we wouldn't be fine just sending some drones there or taking pictures of it with satellites. True. You know what else is true? We could breathe on that new continent, there would be enough nitrogen compounds to grow food, anyone who wanted to go back home could eventually do so, our colonists bodies would not deteriorate due to the low gravity, and if our colonists there got into trouble, we could send help before they all died horribly.

maxlin 3y ago
It doesn't rain in the cave. Even when the rain is over, is the rain comes back you won't be covered. Better never leave the cave.
notfish 3y ago
There are nitrates on mars, nobody is seriously proposing unconditional one way trips, mars has enough gravity to prevent bone loss. But yes, it does mean bringing your own air and being self sufficient, but we do both of those things on the ISS already
- ccooffee 3y ago
  There are definitely people advocating one-way trips to Mars. Buzz Aldrin wrote "Mission to Mars: My Vision for Space Exploration" (2013) pushing the idea of one-way trips and colonization by 2040. There are quite a few projects that have invested time and money into the idea. MarsOne (2012-2019) is possibly the most serious of the attempts, but they weren't exactly close to sending a mission.
- Wytwwww 3y ago
  I guess there are zero practical reasons to go to Mars that would justify the massive cost required to do so. The only thing that comes close on Earth (from the practicality perspective) is the exploration of Antarctica and the Artic and that was done on a shoe-string budget.
- usrbinbash 3y ago
  > There are nitrates on mars The martian atmosphere is 2.8% N2. For comparison, Earths atmoshpere is 78.08% N2, while also being more than 100x as dense. And Earth already has soil, and a developed nitrogen cycle, while Mars doesn't. So there is nowhere near enough Nitrogen in-situ on Mars to support any form of agriculture. It has to be brought from Earth. > mars has enough gravity to prevent bone loss https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/07/407806/traveling-mars-will-wreak-havoc-our-bodies-can-we-prevent-it https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/07/407806/traveling-mars-will... So yes, lowered gravity has negative impacts on our bones and physiology in general. The gravity on Mars is 1/3 that of Earth. And that's after spending several months in-transit at microgravity. > But yes, it does mean bringing your own air and being self sufficient, but we do both of those things on the ISS already The ISS is not self sufficient, and relies on continuos supply runs from earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncrewed_spaceflights_to_the_International_Space_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncrewed_spaceflights_to_the_I...
  - notfish 3y ago
    Nitrates on earth range from 10-50 mg/kg in soil, on mars they make up 1100ppm = 0.1% = 1mg/kg, so in the extreme you can convert 10% of martian land to soil. Seems like plenty. We just don’t know if the 1/3 gravity will cause bone loss problems - going to the moon is the best way to study it, but who knows. Probably, people will just age 3x faster in terms of bone mass on mars. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_osteopenia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_osteopenia And yeah, the first years of a mars colony are gonna be dependent on earth. We’d definitely make sure we have enough rockets that they can abort if shit goes south on supply missions, but there’s no reason earth can’t supply them at first.
    - usrbinbash 3y ago
      Nitrogen in Earths soil is present in the form of Ammonia, and derived substances. Occurring naturally, it is the product of microbial nitrogen fixation of diazotrophic bacteria, and subsequent biological processing. Plants can use these compounds directly. Nitrates on mars will probably be in the form of nitrate salts. Btw. agriculture also requires soil. Which the martian regolith isn't. > We’d definitely make sure we have enough rockets that they can abort if shit goes south on supply missions Have enough rockets where? On mars? Using what fuel? Using what ground installations like scaffolds and launch pads? Also, launching between Mars and Earth is only possible during specific time windows. For an Earth-Mars transit, these occur ~once every 2 years. So if "shit goes south" outside these windows, the amount of rockets won't matter.

maxlin 3y ago

It doesn't rain in the cave. Even when the rain is over, is the rain comes back you won't be covered. Better never leave the cave.

notfish 3y ago

There are nitrates on mars, nobody is seriously proposing unconditional one way trips, mars has enough gravity to prevent bone loss. But yes, it does mean bringing your own air and being self sufficient, but we do both of those things on the ISS already

ccooffee 3y ago
There are definitely people advocating one-way trips to Mars. Buzz Aldrin wrote "Mission to Mars: My Vision for Space Exploration" (2013) pushing the idea of one-way trips and colonization by 2040. There are quite a few projects that have invested time and money into the idea. MarsOne (2012-2019) is possibly the most serious of the attempts, but they weren't exactly close to sending a mission.
Wytwwww 3y ago
I guess there are zero practical reasons to go to Mars that would justify the massive cost required to do so. The only thing that comes close on Earth (from the practicality perspective) is the exploration of Antarctica and the Artic and that was done on a shoe-string budget.
usrbinbash 3y ago
> There are nitrates on mars The martian atmosphere is 2.8% N2. For comparison, Earths atmoshpere is 78.08% N2, while also being more than 100x as dense. And Earth already has soil, and a developed nitrogen cycle, while Mars doesn't. So there is nowhere near enough Nitrogen in-situ on Mars to support any form of agriculture. It has to be brought from Earth. > mars has enough gravity to prevent bone loss https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/07/407806/traveling-mars-will-wreak-havoc-our-bodies-can-we-prevent-it https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2017/07/407806/traveling-mars-will... So yes, lowered gravity has negative impacts on our bones and physiology in general. The gravity on Mars is 1/3 that of Earth. And that's after spending several months in-transit at microgravity. > But yes, it does mean bringing your own air and being self sufficient, but we do both of those things on the ISS already The ISS is not self sufficient, and relies on continuos supply runs from earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncrewed_spaceflights_to_the_International_Space_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncrewed_spaceflights_to_the_I...
- notfish 3y ago
  Nitrates on earth range from 10-50 mg/kg in soil, on mars they make up 1100ppm = 0.1% = 1mg/kg, so in the extreme you can convert 10% of martian land to soil. Seems like plenty. We just don’t know if the 1/3 gravity will cause bone loss problems - going to the moon is the best way to study it, but who knows. Probably, people will just age 3x faster in terms of bone mass on mars. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_osteopenia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight_osteopenia And yeah, the first years of a mars colony are gonna be dependent on earth. We’d definitely make sure we have enough rockets that they can abort if shit goes south on supply missions, but there’s no reason earth can’t supply them at first.
  - usrbinbash 3y ago
    Nitrogen in Earths soil is present in the form of Ammonia, and derived substances. Occurring naturally, it is the product of microbial nitrogen fixation of diazotrophic bacteria, and subsequent biological processing. Plants can use these compounds directly. Nitrates on mars will probably be in the form of nitrate salts. Btw. agriculture also requires soil. Which the martian regolith isn't. > We’d definitely make sure we have enough rockets that they can abort if shit goes south on supply missions Have enough rockets where? On mars? Using what fuel? Using what ground installations like scaffolds and launch pads? Also, launching between Mars and Earth is only possible during specific time windows. For an Earth-Mars transit, these occur ~once every 2 years. So if "shit goes south" outside these windows, the amount of rockets won't matter.