4 ms·

That's not what socialism means. Socialism is state-controlled means of production, IIRC.

a_cardboard_box 3y ago
Socialism is worker-controlled means of production. State-controlled means of production is socialism if the workers control the state (which is generally not the case for states that call themselves "socialist").
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  Youre kidding yourself if you think the average worker in Japan has much say in the company, or how those companies direct the state they're conservative, in the sense they don't like change, but that ain't nothin to do w/ Karl M
  - a_cardboard_box 3y ago
    I don't think Japan is socialist.
  - a1o 3y ago
    There's nothing in their answer that indicates this, you are confusing with the other person.
- M95D 3y ago
  No, that's communism, or at least what communist propaganda say it is. In communism the means of production are controlled by the state (saying they're controlled by the workers, but it's false). AFAIK, the means of production (large ones, not a one-man-tailor-shop) were never controlled by the workers, except maybe in the extremely short periods of anarchism.
M95D 3y ago
No, that's communism.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Depends who you ask, but Marx used the two interchangeably. Lenin thought that Socialism was Communism stage 1.[0] But I think it's pretty normal to see Socialism as State-owned means of production. Trust your bureaucrats! [0] https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism/Marxian-communism https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism/Marxian-communism
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    In any case, Japan and its history are very far away from Socialism / Communism. Meiji Era was pre-industrial Samurai. Meiji / Imperial Japan was Fascist but with the rise of independent companies like Mitsubishi (who had ties to the old Samurai families). Perhaps its best to use Japanese words: like Zaibatsu, to describe these concepts. I don't know if Capitalist is the best word for Japan, because those weird centuries-old Samurai families / companies are just an alien concept to Western-language. Yes, Zaibatsu is kinda-sorta like a Western Company or Corporation, but not really. If I were forced to put Japan on the Capitalist vs Communist axis, I'd say the proliferation of Zaibatsu clearly put them towards Capitalist slant (ie: private entities who control large sums of wealth). But its very different than Western societies or our concept of companies. The values system of a Zaibatsu / Japanese century-old company is very different from the values system of a traditional American mega-corp. --------------- Going back to this topic: Nintendo itself was founded in 1889, during this rise of the Meiji Era and Zaibatsu (though I don't think Nintendo ever grew to the size large enough to be considered a Zaibatsu... it grew up and existed in the era of such beasts). Due to the emphasis of longevity and company values, Japan has odd traditions. Such as the concept of adult-adoption, where some Fathers (often businessmen in charge of a 200, 300+ year old company) will adopt 20 to 30+ year olds with the expectation that these adults will take over a family business. Does this make Japan more capitalist or socialist? Well, neither. Its just different and probably best to try to not bring Western axis (like Capitalism vs Socialism) to describe their society. Japanese society from Meiji era onward was undoubtably influenced by the British (Japan studied the history of the other "industrialized island", and used Britain as the basis for their new government / theories). And later, when USA took over and occupied after WW2, Japan further was influenced by USA. As such, I really do think they're more capitalist if we had to pick capitalism vs socialism.

Socialism is worker-controlled means of production. State-controlled means of production is socialism if the workers control the state (which is generally not the case for states that call themselves "socialist").

red-iron-pine 3y ago
Youre kidding yourself if you think the average worker in Japan has much say in the company, or how those companies direct the state they're conservative, in the sense they don't like change, but that ain't nothin to do w/ Karl M
- a_cardboard_box 3y ago
  I don't think Japan is socialist.
- a1o 3y ago
  There's nothing in their answer that indicates this, you are confusing with the other person.
M95D 3y ago
No, that's communism, or at least what communist propaganda say it is. In communism the means of production are controlled by the state (saying they're controlled by the workers, but it's false). AFAIK, the means of production (large ones, not a one-man-tailor-shop) were never controlled by the workers, except maybe in the extremely short periods of anarchism.

M95D 3y ago

No, that's communism.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Depends who you ask, but Marx used the two interchangeably. Lenin thought that Socialism was Communism stage 1.[0] But I think it's pretty normal to see Socialism as State-owned means of production. Trust your bureaucrats! [0] https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism/Marxian-communism https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism/Marxian-communism
- dragontamer 3y ago
  In any case, Japan and its history are very far away from Socialism / Communism. Meiji Era was pre-industrial Samurai. Meiji / Imperial Japan was Fascist but with the rise of independent companies like Mitsubishi (who had ties to the old Samurai families). Perhaps its best to use Japanese words: like Zaibatsu, to describe these concepts. I don't know if Capitalist is the best word for Japan, because those weird centuries-old Samurai families / companies are just an alien concept to Western-language. Yes, Zaibatsu is kinda-sorta like a Western Company or Corporation, but not really. If I were forced to put Japan on the Capitalist vs Communist axis, I'd say the proliferation of Zaibatsu clearly put them towards Capitalist slant (ie: private entities who control large sums of wealth). But its very different than Western societies or our concept of companies. The values system of a Zaibatsu / Japanese century-old company is very different from the values system of a traditional American mega-corp. --------------- Going back to this topic: Nintendo itself was founded in 1889, during this rise of the Meiji Era and Zaibatsu (though I don't think Nintendo ever grew to the size large enough to be considered a Zaibatsu... it grew up and existed in the era of such beasts). Due to the emphasis of longevity and company values, Japan has odd traditions. Such as the concept of adult-adoption, where some Fathers (often businessmen in charge of a 200, 300+ year old company) will adopt 20 to 30+ year olds with the expectation that these adults will take over a family business. Does this make Japan more capitalist or socialist? Well, neither. Its just different and probably best to try to not bring Western axis (like Capitalism vs Socialism) to describe their society. Japanese society from Meiji era onward was undoubtably influenced by the British (Japan studied the history of the other "industrialized island", and used Britain as the basis for their new government / theories). And later, when USA took over and occupied after WW2, Japan further was influenced by USA. As such, I really do think they're more capitalist if we had to pick capitalism vs socialism.