4 ms·

Maybe these metrics are what's crap? GDP doesn't mean much for people day to day. Neither does how high a score the stock market happened to hit in its arbitrar

Maybe these metrics are what's crap? GDP doesn't mean much for people day to day. Neither does how high a score the stock market happened to hit in its arbitrary magic points system. People care about the job market, the cost of living, direction effects of inflation on buying goods and services. When people say they economy sucks they mean they can't buy a car right now because the bank will only give them an ass interest rate even with great credit and the price of groceries has skyrocketed. I've believed for awhile now the stock market has been a poor measure of the economy because its become decoupled from the "real" economy, ie: the things I listed above.

csours 3y ago
There's a saying "All Politics are Local" Maybe "All Economics are Local" too. Obviously neither of those are true in a general sense - but the local situation is what feels most important.
dfxm12 3y ago
When people say they economy sucks they mean they can't buy a car right now because the bank will only give them an ass interest rate even with great credit and the price of groceries has skyrocketed. With regards to grocery prices, what does corporate greed have to do with the president? As for the car, the FED has a big hand in interest rates, and yeah, Biden did choose to re-nominate Powell, but Powell was originally appointed by Trump, so I don't know how voters can really say the republican would have done better. The American economy is bad for people under a certain line, yes. The question is why does the media always overplay the economy when Republicans are in power and downplay it when Democrats are?
- bendhoefs 3y ago
  Anti-monopoly policy is one lever the president has and has been essentially ignored since the 70s in favor talking about the fed the fed the fed all the time. As one example the meat packing industry has become highly consolidated, squeezing both farmers and consumers while extracting massive profits. But across the entire economy many industries have become highly consolidated and subsequently raised their profit margins to the detriment of everyone but shareholders.
  - dfxm12 3y ago
    OK, even if one thinks this is specifically failing of Biden (or a generic democratic president) then, realistically, what is a republican going to do about this? Trump in fact favored corporate consolidation in his 2020 Economic Report of the President. The media obviously wasn't talking about this when they were talking about how good the stock market was under Trump...
    - bendhoefs 3y ago
      Do you think I'm saying this because I'm a Republican? Biden has actually been the best president of my lifetime for these issues but that just speaks to how pathetic the Democrats have been on economic issues for decades. Barely opposition at all economically speaking, they differentiate themselves more by wearing Kente cloth and engaging in divisive culture war stuff these days.
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  >With regards to grocery prices, what does corporate greed have to do with the president? Most people aren't extracting the root causes to high prices. They watch the news, hear there is inflation and go to the store and see prices are high. Even if they had an inclination to, that kind of economic education is not standard. The population at large is very ignorant to how the economy works. They blame the prices on inflation and companies looking to gouge prices know this and take advantage of it. But, corporate greed and monopolies have a lot to do with the president. At least Teddy Roosevelt thought it did. And he did something about it. It's not unreasonable to ask why Biden doesn't. There was a point, brief as it may have been where it at least seemed like our institutions cared more about how the economy effected the common man. >The American economy is bad for people under a certain line, yes. The question is why does the media always overplay the economy when Republicans are in power and downplay it when Democrats are? I should have made this more clear in my first post. But my core point is, public sentiment doesn't care about economic reports. It cares about tangible every day things like prices of goods and interest rates. It doesn't care nor understand the root causes. It blames the guy in charge. For better or worse POTUS is always to blame for the current state of the economy. It comes with the job. Instead of saying the public is stupid, I think its more productive to accept it and work out how best to deal with it. And I don't think they downplay for republicans and exaggerate for democrats. The large media corps are selling a product and outrage helps. The kind of outrage the sells best depends on a lot of things. When trump was president, it was effective to just sell him as the outrage product. Biden is a much more dour and boring person. You have to focus on other things than the personality at the top. Before 9/11, Bush was getting attacked for the economy. He presided over the dot com bust. But with GWOT most criticism for him switched to that. The 2008 recession happened while Obama was in office and had long since left the news cycle by the time he left so duh.
jayd16 3y ago
There's sticker shock but the jobs numbers are great.
asfdgionoino 3y ago
Unemployment is way down, real wages are up even compared to before Covid-19, and inflation is back to normal levels. The large majority of people are doing well. When people say the economy sucks they are largely not talking about their own economic situation. Most people believe that they, personally, are doing well, but that some nebulous "the economy" is doing badly. We have a nation of thriving people who believe everything is falling apart. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation-negativity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation...
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  I'm going to copy paste a comment I made elsewhere to get my point across. People don't think of inflation quarter to quarter or even FY to FY. They think of it in terms of what they are calibrated to think "normal" prices are. For most people that's going to be pre-pandemic. Since prices have not returned to pre-pandemic levels the economy is bad. Especially so since their wages haven't gone up comparably to match. This is why the numbers are largely useless at gauging public sentiment. Nobody cares that this quarter the rate of inflation has slowed. They care that chicken breasts cost double what it should. They care that a Ford Mustang GT can cost $50k when they were pretty sure they were $30k. They care that fast food costs as much as a sit down restaraunt should and the sit down costs as much as a nice one should. Now you can all explain that with numbers and reports but sentiment doesn't care about that. Public opinion is an inherently irrational thing. But it is still incredibly important because elections are decided by it. It doesn't matter if GDP is positive and inflation is good right now if everyone thinks we are in a recession and the prices of everything are too damn high. You will get voted out. I'm not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.
  - db-interface 3y ago
    > Especially so since their wages haven't gone up comparably to match. The economic data indicates that average income has gone up more than prices have since the start of the pandemic. If you look at Real Personal Income (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI) it's up 5% relative to the end of 2019. And if you think inflation is way higher than is being adjusted for, you're simply wrong. The MSRP for a 2023 Mustang GT is $38,345 (https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2023/ https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2023/). The 2020 was $38,320 (https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2020/ https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2020/). The price of Chicken Breast is up 38%, not 100% (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000FF1101 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000FF1101). Yes, public opinion is irrational, but the more obvious political question is why public opinion is so wrong now, when often it is not so pessimistic about the economy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

csours 3y ago

There's a saying "All Politics are Local" Maybe "All Economics are Local" too. Obviously neither of those are true in a general sense - but the local situation is what feels most important.

dfxm12 3y ago

When people say they economy sucks they mean they can't buy a car right now because the bank will only give them an ass interest rate even with great credit and the price of groceries has skyrocketed. With regards to grocery prices, what does corporate greed have to do with the president? As for the car, the FED has a big hand in interest rates, and yeah, Biden did choose to re-nominate Powell, but Powell was originally appointed by Trump, so I don't know how voters can really say the republican would have done better. The American economy is bad for people under a certain line, yes. The question is why does the media always overplay the economy when Republicans are in power and downplay it when Democrats are?

bendhoefs 3y ago
Anti-monopoly policy is one lever the president has and has been essentially ignored since the 70s in favor talking about the fed the fed the fed all the time. As one example the meat packing industry has become highly consolidated, squeezing both farmers and consumers while extracting massive profits. But across the entire economy many industries have become highly consolidated and subsequently raised their profit margins to the detriment of everyone but shareholders.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  OK, even if one thinks this is specifically failing of Biden (or a generic democratic president) then, realistically, what is a republican going to do about this? Trump in fact favored corporate consolidation in his 2020 Economic Report of the President. The media obviously wasn't talking about this when they were talking about how good the stock market was under Trump...
  - bendhoefs 3y ago
    Do you think I'm saying this because I'm a Republican? Biden has actually been the best president of my lifetime for these issues but that just speaks to how pathetic the Democrats have been on economic issues for decades. Barely opposition at all economically speaking, they differentiate themselves more by wearing Kente cloth and engaging in divisive culture war stuff these days.
thereddaikon 3y ago
>With regards to grocery prices, what does corporate greed have to do with the president? Most people aren't extracting the root causes to high prices. They watch the news, hear there is inflation and go to the store and see prices are high. Even if they had an inclination to, that kind of economic education is not standard. The population at large is very ignorant to how the economy works. They blame the prices on inflation and companies looking to gouge prices know this and take advantage of it. But, corporate greed and monopolies have a lot to do with the president. At least Teddy Roosevelt thought it did. And he did something about it. It's not unreasonable to ask why Biden doesn't. There was a point, brief as it may have been where it at least seemed like our institutions cared more about how the economy effected the common man. >The American economy is bad for people under a certain line, yes. The question is why does the media always overplay the economy when Republicans are in power and downplay it when Democrats are? I should have made this more clear in my first post. But my core point is, public sentiment doesn't care about economic reports. It cares about tangible every day things like prices of goods and interest rates. It doesn't care nor understand the root causes. It blames the guy in charge. For better or worse POTUS is always to blame for the current state of the economy. It comes with the job. Instead of saying the public is stupid, I think its more productive to accept it and work out how best to deal with it. And I don't think they downplay for republicans and exaggerate for democrats. The large media corps are selling a product and outrage helps. The kind of outrage the sells best depends on a lot of things. When trump was president, it was effective to just sell him as the outrage product. Biden is a much more dour and boring person. You have to focus on other things than the personality at the top. Before 9/11, Bush was getting attacked for the economy. He presided over the dot com bust. But with GWOT most criticism for him switched to that. The 2008 recession happened while Obama was in office and had long since left the news cycle by the time he left so duh.

jayd16 3y ago

There's sticker shock but the jobs numbers are great.

asfdgionoino 3y ago

Unemployment is way down, real wages are up even compared to before Covid-19, and inflation is back to normal levels. The large majority of people are doing well. When people say the economy sucks they are largely not talking about their own economic situation. Most people believe that they, personally, are doing well, but that some nebulous "the economy" is doing badly. We have a nation of thriving people who believe everything is falling apart. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation-negativity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation...

thereddaikon 3y ago
I'm going to copy paste a comment I made elsewhere to get my point across. People don't think of inflation quarter to quarter or even FY to FY. They think of it in terms of what they are calibrated to think "normal" prices are. For most people that's going to be pre-pandemic. Since prices have not returned to pre-pandemic levels the economy is bad. Especially so since their wages haven't gone up comparably to match. This is why the numbers are largely useless at gauging public sentiment. Nobody cares that this quarter the rate of inflation has slowed. They care that chicken breasts cost double what it should. They care that a Ford Mustang GT can cost $50k when they were pretty sure they were $30k. They care that fast food costs as much as a sit down restaraunt should and the sit down costs as much as a nice one should. Now you can all explain that with numbers and reports but sentiment doesn't care about that. Public opinion is an inherently irrational thing. But it is still incredibly important because elections are decided by it. It doesn't matter if GDP is positive and inflation is good right now if everyone thinks we are in a recession and the prices of everything are too damn high. You will get voted out. I'm not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.
- db-interface 3y ago
  > Especially so since their wages haven't gone up comparably to match. The economic data indicates that average income has gone up more than prices have since the start of the pandemic. If you look at Real Personal Income (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPI) it's up 5% relative to the end of 2019. And if you think inflation is way higher than is being adjusted for, you're simply wrong. The MSRP for a 2023 Mustang GT is $38,345 (https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2023/ https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2023/). The 2020 was $38,320 (https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2020/ https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/2020/). The price of Chicken Breast is up 38%, not 100% (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000FF1101 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000FF1101). Yes, public opinion is irrational, but the more obvious political question is why public opinion is so wrong now, when often it is not so pessimistic about the economy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]