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Google culture in general seems to be "this is not fun or a very profitable, so we are just going to, like, not do it anymore". Fundamentally it comes from the

Google culture in general seems to be "this is not fun or a very profitable, so we are just going to, like, not do it anymore". Fundamentally it comes from the fact that they don't have to do any of it anyway. Anyone using AdWords knows that it's a money-printing machine. Google is thousands of fresh CS graduates who want to do "cool green-field stuff" but not really the day-to-day grind we are all part of and what we call "software engineering".

UncleMeat 3y ago
I think that there are competing cultures, and ultimately only one of them has the power to fire people. I'm currently losing a multi-year long siege to kill a project with significant external visibility almost entirely because of organizational structure. A series of reorgs and new VPs have ended up such that our VP doesn't give a crap about our project and the VP that does doesn't have a great relationship with our VP. My experience is that people really do become proud of the systems that they build and that deleting them is something they avoid. This isn't coming from junior engineers wanting to do green field stuff. This is coming from VPs who swoop in and say "what I care about is this metric and if you aren't pushing on this metric then you are fired." There are aggravating factors. Regulation sometimes means that core infrastructure needs to change out from under you, so the "it is stable and just needs a small amount of ongoing maintenance" doesn't always persist. I think that Google's monorepo also contributes to this. It has a lot of huge benefits but it also means that "keep the old version of library X around" isn't really possible.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  "My experience is that people really do become proud of the systems that they build and that deleting them is something they avoid." Who is still in the same position or team 10, or even 2 years, or even 6 months later, especially in any faang?
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    I have been on the same team, maintaining the same system for 10 years here at Google. The median tenure on my team is six years.
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      That is good to hear. I had gotten an impression of frequent moves required as the only way to advance.
- DrScientist 3y ago
  I think the other problem with reorgs is that the incoming VP often wants a success they can call their own. It's a bit like lion infanticide when a pride is taken over - the new leaders are not invested in existing projects - they want to give birth to a success of their own and your maintenance of an existing project is competing for resources.
bitcharmer 3y ago
> Google is thousands of fresh CS graduates This is exactly my impression judging by the quality of their products and Google's interviewing process.
Pet_Ant 3y ago
I'm doing boring enterprise maintenance for a lot less than Google money, maybe I should just apply. "No, I'm not Ivy league or MIT, but I'm great at taking abuse and grinding away thanklessly". Any chance that buys me a pass on not being great at memorizing algorithims?
- kridsdale3 3y ago
  "I'm not Ivy league or MIT, but I'm great at taking abuse and grinding away thanklessly" This describes me, and they hired me.
- JonChesterfield 3y ago
  Nope, the whole point of the memorizing algorithms to gain access structure is to show that you're great at grinding away thanklessly. Just saying it isn't enough.

UncleMeat 3y ago

I think that there are competing cultures, and ultimately only one of them has the power to fire people. I'm currently losing a multi-year long siege to kill a project with significant external visibility almost entirely because of organizational structure. A series of reorgs and new VPs have ended up such that our VP doesn't give a crap about our project and the VP that does doesn't have a great relationship with our VP. My experience is that people really do become proud of the systems that they build and that deleting them is something they avoid. This isn't coming from junior engineers wanting to do green field stuff. This is coming from VPs who swoop in and say "what I care about is this metric and if you aren't pushing on this metric then you are fired." There are aggravating factors. Regulation sometimes means that core infrastructure needs to change out from under you, so the "it is stable and just needs a small amount of ongoing maintenance" doesn't always persist. I think that Google's monorepo also contributes to this. It has a lot of huge benefits but it also means that "keep the old version of library X around" isn't really possible.

Brian_K_White 3y ago
"My experience is that people really do become proud of the systems that they build and that deleting them is something they avoid." Who is still in the same position or team 10, or even 2 years, or even 6 months later, especially in any faang?
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  I have been on the same team, maintaining the same system for 10 years here at Google. The median tenure on my team is six years.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    That is good to hear. I had gotten an impression of frequent moves required as the only way to advance.
DrScientist 3y ago
I think the other problem with reorgs is that the incoming VP often wants a success they can call their own. It's a bit like lion infanticide when a pride is taken over - the new leaders are not invested in existing projects - they want to give birth to a success of their own and your maintenance of an existing project is competing for resources.

bitcharmer 3y ago

> Google is thousands of fresh CS graduates This is exactly my impression judging by the quality of their products and Google's interviewing process.

Pet_Ant 3y ago

I'm doing boring enterprise maintenance for a lot less than Google money, maybe I should just apply. "No, I'm not Ivy league or MIT, but I'm great at taking abuse and grinding away thanklessly". Any chance that buys me a pass on not being great at memorizing algorithims?

kridsdale3 3y ago
"I'm not Ivy league or MIT, but I'm great at taking abuse and grinding away thanklessly" This describes me, and they hired me.
JonChesterfield 3y ago
Nope, the whole point of the memorizing algorithms to gain access structure is to show that you're great at grinding away thanklessly. Just saying it isn't enough.