6 ms·
Can somebody explain in a sentence or two what this actually is and what the benefits are?
by cpursley 3y ago
Can somebody explain in a sentence or two what this actually is and what the benefits are?
- gmaster1440 3y agoModern tech stack for managing data centers using tightly integrated hardware and software.
- mickeyp 3y agoLike Dell and Bladelogic used to be? Or VMWare ESXi and friends? Or...
- EvanAnderson 3y agoI'd say more like Sun, or DEC, at least in terms of the hardware. The software is Free, which wasn't the case with those older companies.
- andrewstuart 3y agoWeird there’s no mention of GPU at all when you’d think that’s what would prick up the ears of the hosting companies ….. stack a pile of GPUs in a rack, surely you can sell time on that. The Oxide machines seem to be aimed at 2020.
- axelthegerman 3y agoThis seems to be around selling the whole piece of hardware not just "time on that". That being said I'd still expect a monthly service fee for networking, electricity and service in general.
- 7thaccount 3y agoI don't think they're trying to be AWS. They're trying to sell a product that greatly simplifies doing on-site cloud for companies. So they sell the physical hardware/software bundle and not time.
- depr 3y agoThey want a lot of control over all the hardware in their servers. NVIDIA isn't interested in that, so they can't provide those types of servers.
- andrewstuart 3y agoAMD? Intel?
- throw0101a 3y agoAMD helped them write their own bootloader: > “Oxide is a strong believer in the need for open-source software at the lowest layers of the stack -- including silicon initialization and platform enablement. With the availability of AMD openSIL, AMD is showing that they share this vision. We believe that the ultimate beneficiaries of open-source silicon initialization -- as it has been for open-source revolutions elsewhere in the stack -- will be customers and end-users, and we applaud AMD for taking this important and inspiring step!” * https://community.amd.com/t5/business/empowering-the-industry-with-open-system-firmware-amd-opensil/ba-p/599644 https://community.amd.com/t5/business/empowering-the-industr... See Bryan Cantrill's (Oxide CTO) presentation on their adventures in this space: * https://www.osfc.io/2022/talks/i-have-come-to-bury-the-bios-not-to-open-it-the-need-for-holistic-systems/ https://www.osfc.io/2022/talks/i-have-come-to-bury-the-bios-... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145411 (discussion at the time)
- nickik 3y agoThere is still a huge amount of stuff not using GPU and never will. Claiming that's only for 2020 is pure nonsense. They are likely looking at future racks with GPU as well, but as a first product getting the basics right makes more sense.
- loudmax 3y agoOxide's goal is that they, and by extension their customers, have as much visibility and control over the software stack in these racks as possible, and that includes firmware. They started developing these systems before the current wave of interest in machine learning led by ChatGPU and Stable Diffusion really got underway. Nvidia GPU drivers are very proprietary, which means that admins and developers have limited visibility into them if they misbehave in any way. This goes against Oxide's philosophy of full visibility into a system that you purchase. Nvidia's CUDA software has a significant lead ahead of AMD and Intel GPUs, and they're not going to open source it any time soon. But this is a rapidly changing landscape, and AMD and Intel and others are pouring an enormous amount of research into getting their hardware and software to match what Nvidia has going. Nvidia is in pole position, but they're not guaranteed to stay there. There's still a large market for the CPU workloads that Oxide is offering. For now, Oxide will be concentrating on meeting this traditional compute demand. But you're right to point out that in 2023, the absence of a top tier GPU in these racks is noticeable. I suspect Oxide will want to include some form of GPU or TPU into the next version of their system, but they won't just grab whatever hardware happens to be in fashion. It needs to work with their system as a whole.
- svnt 3y agoNow to see how their development timeframes and synchronization efforts with big hardware companies go. This is where they will enter the real “hard” part of hardware, with an exec team from software. Can they respond to the market while making hardware? They seem to have presented as generally thoughtful about their approach. If they can release major variants about annually or even sub-annually that is what I think will enable them to win.
- junon 3y agoIt appears to be an all in one, preconfigured/partially-or-completely assembled rack server for on-prem hosting, complete with pre-configured software. Just my perception given the front page. I agree it's a bit vague.
- 7thaccount 3y agoThey have been on HN numerous times over the years iirc. But yeah, I had completely forgotten what they did and had to read through all of it.
- nithril 3y agoIf it is on-prem, calling it "cloud" computer is imho misleading / marketing term.
- steve1977 3y agoAbsolutely. The point of cloud computing is that I don't have to care where something is running and that I (theoretically) have infinite elasticity and can scale in and out as fast and much as I need to. None of that applies here.
- dist1ll 3y agoThis server is for cloud operators - i.e. for organizations that are building their own cloud infrastructure. That's why Oxide is drawing comparisons to hyperscalers.
- steve1977 3y agoIf you are building your own cloud infrastructure, you're not doing cloud computing. Unless you rent it out and are a cloud provider, but the website at least does not seem to target those.
- growse 3y agoNonsense. The operative bit of "cloud" is "provision and de-provision instantly via an API, without much concern for what's going on inderneath", not "lives in someone else's datacenter".
- emmelaich 3y agoHere's a bit of history: https://bcantrill.dtrace.org/2019/12/02/the-soul-of-a-new-computer-company/ https://bcantrill.dtrace.org/2019/12/02/the-soul-of-a-new-co...
- NKosmatos 3y agoI'll second that, they should make it clear what they're selling and what they have to offer. Every company should have this in their main/landing page... If I can't understand what you're selling/offering in 30sec, then I'm not interested :-) If you take some time and read around their site you'll see that they're offering a ready to run (turnkey) server. They have everything packed together, they've integrated everything that is needed (CPU, disk, networking...) into a nice looking cabinet, with not too many wires and they're selling it as a complete package. If you're in need of a server (cloud computer) and you don't want to but separate components and unpack them and connect them yourself, then this looks like a possible solution.
- nickik 3y agoLiterally on the main page there is a picture of a big computer. And then it says: Oxide Cloud Computer No Cables. No Assembly. Just Cloud. Contact Sales How much easier can they make it? They clearly want to sell computers.
- rob74 3y agoYes, but... what is a "Cloud Computer"? Is it a "computer in the cloud", like e.g. an AWS EC2 instance? Or is it a fancy name for a good old fashioned server rack (on which you will probably want to run your own cloud, because everybody's doing that nowadays, hence the name), like in this case? And if it's a server rack, how come you don't need any cables? And what do you do with this "cloud computer"? Do they host it in their data center or deliver it to you? So there is some potential for confusion - nothing that can't be mostly cleared up by reading a bit further, but still...
- FridgeSeal 3y ago> like e.g. an AWS EC2 instance? Or is it a fancy name for a good old fashioned server rack I mean, the former is just the latter with some of the setup done for you no? Anyways, it’s a full server rack, with tightly vertically integrated hardware and software. Not sure if you’ve poked around the rest of their site, but it seems like their whole software stack is designed with some really nice usability and integration in mind: there’s a little half-snippet there suggesting that provisioning bare-metal VM’s out of the underlying hardware could as trivial as provisioning an EC2 with Terraform, and if that’s the case, that’s _massive_. > And if it's a server rack, how come you don't need any cables? Because they’ve gone to great lengths and care to design it to not need anything extraneous IIUC. I think the compute sleds all automatically mount into some automatic backplane that presumably gives you power, cooling and networking, and then, as above, you presumably configure all that via software, as you would your AWS setup. Not an expert here though, happy to be corrected by anyone who actually knows better. > Do they host it in their data center or deliver it to you? Presumably the latter, given they’re a hardware company, but if their software is even a 10th as good as it seems, I fully believe there’ll be a massive market for renting bare-metal capacity from them.
- throw0101a 3y agoDesigning a hardware-software combination to allow for the managing of compute (and networking and storage) to occur at the rack-level rather at the individual-device (server, switch, etc) level, so that large(r)-scale operators can manage cattle more easily (rather than herding cats/pets).
- subarctic 3y agoIt's a rack of servers you can buy for a lot of money and put in a datacenter. And once you plug it in and turn it on and do whatever setup is required, you're supposed to be able to spin up vms on it.
- pmontra 3y agoThe site is really hard to navigate. I eventually looked at the footer and found a link to the technical specifications https://oxide.computer/product/specifications https://oxide.computer/product/specifications They give an idea of the beast, especially the dimensions and weight Dimensions H x W x D 2354mm (92.7") x 600mm (23.7”) x 1060mm (41.8") Weight Up to ~2,518 lbs (~1,145 kg) It's a rack. BTW, they are following some no pictures policy. I found only a few pictures of boards but no picture of the product as a whole.
- nickik 3y agoLiterally on the main page: https://oxide.computer/ https://oxide.computer/
- aeyes 3y agoCan you link the picture? I only see renderings on the main page.
- brucepink 3y agohttps://x.com/arjenroodselaar/status/1690986149161144320?s=20 https://x.com/arjenroodselaar/status/1690986149161144320?s=2...
- pmontra 3y agoIndeed, which demonstrates that an explicit link to Home in a visible place is never a bad idea. I didn't click on 0xide in the top left even if that's a common shortcut to the home and I didn't notice the link in the footer, which is where you bury the least interesting stuff. I kept clicking on the text links in the top bar.
- monkeydust 3y agoAlso this. Looks technically great but how do you sell this to business? Whats the price range? Is this supposed to be an acceptable solution between on-prem and cloud as we start to realise the true costs of being hooked on cloud when your a large org and not a startup?
- cstross 3y agoThey've reinvented the IBM Mainframe. Big rack-sized box with lots of redundant hardware that serves guest VMs. This is basically a zSeries in drag. The key difference is the price structure -- IBM leases the hardware wherever they can get away with it, and uses a license manager to control how many of the machine's resources you can access (based on how much you can bear to pay). This, however, is like a mainframe you own.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y agoThis is exactly what it is, plus custom "cloud" software
- panick21_ 3y agoMainframes also do lots of other things that this doesn't really do. Like allowing you to pretend its a bunch of multi-core machines, or even a single one.
- pravus 3y agoIn a data center you have racks of computers performing all of the workloads. At this point these racks are fairly standardized in terms of sizing and ancillary features. These are built-out to solve the following: * Physical space - The servers themselves require a certain amount of room and depending on the workloads assigned will need different dimensions. These are specified in rack "units" (U) as the height dimension. The width is fixed and depths can vary but are within a standard limit. A rack might have something like 44U of total vertical space and each server can take anywhere from 1-4U generally. Some equipment may even go up to 6U or 8U (or more). * Power - All rack equipment will require power so there are generally looms or wiring schemes to run all cabling and outlets for all powered devices in the rack. For the most part this can be run on or in the post rails and remains hidden other than the outlet receptacles and mounted power strips. This might also include added battery and power conditioning systems which will eat into your total vertical U budget. Total rack power consumption is a vital figure. * Cooling - Most rack equipment will require some minimum amount of airflow or temperature range to operate properly. Servers have fans but there will also be a need for airflow within the rack itself and you might have to solve unexpected issues such as temperature gradients from the floor to the ceiling of the rack. Net heat output from workloads is a vital figure. * Networking - Since most rack equipment will be networked there are standard ways of cabling and patching in networks built into many racks. This will include things such as bays for switches, some of which may eat into the vertical U budget. These devices typically aggregate all rack traffic into a single higher-throughput network backplane that interconnects multiple racks into the broader network topology. * Storage - Depending on the workloads involved storage may be a major consideration and can require significant space (vertical Us), power, and cooling. You will also need to take into account the bus interconnects between storage devices and servers. This may also be delegated out into a SAN topology similar to a network where you have dedicated switches to connect to external storage networks. These are some of the major challenges with rack-mounted computing in a data center among many others. What's not really illustrated here is that since all of this has become so standardized we can now fully integrate these components directly rather than buying them piece-meal and installing them in a rack. This is what Oxide has to offer. They have built essentially an entire rack that solves the physical space, power, cooling, networking, and storage issues by simply giving you a turn-key box you plant in your data center and hook power and interconnects to. In addition it is a fully integrated solution so they can capture a lot of efficiencies that would be hard or impossible in traditional design. As someone with a lot of data center experience I am very excited to see this. It is built by people with the correct attitude toward compute, imo.
- barrkel 3y agoThe way I interpret it: an integrated stack of compute, storage and networking hardware and monitoring software that you can plug in to your data center (owned or colo) and can e.g. deploy Kubernetes to, and then use as a deployment target for your services. The main USP: you own it, you're not renting it. You're not beholden to big cloud's pricing strategies and gotchas. Secondary USP, why you buy this rather than DIY / rack computer vendor: it's a vertically integrated experience, it's preassembled, it's plug and play, compatibility is sorted out, there's no weird closed third party dependencies. Basically, the Apple experience rather than the PC experience.
- nunez 3y agoThe Oxide has everything you need to stand up your own private cloud, and everything works together down to the software. It's a great alternative to buying and managing servers, switches, storage, power management, KVMs, all of the software in between, and the tens of professional services contracts required to glue it all together. It's the iPhone of hyperconverged infrastructure. (Sorry; three sentences.)
- cryptonector 3y agoLow risk of vendor lock-in.
- fuzzylightbulb 3y agoThis thing is the definition of vendor lock in. It's a rack full of non-commodity hardware using non-standard connectors and a bunch of custom software. The industry moved to commodity x86 for compute for a reason.