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I live in NL which has a very high number of roundabouts and this is not my experience at all. Granted most have priority pedestrian crossings which people do r

by dtech 3y ago

I live in NL which has a very high number of roundabouts and this is not my experience at all. Granted most have priority pedestrian crossings which people do respects.

zik 3y ago
It's a documented effect of roundabouts that they tend to result in more pedestrian fatalities than other forms of intersection. But it does depend on the design - it's possible to improve pedestrian safety at the cost of traffic throughput. Guess which choice my country made...
- Dah00n 3y ago
  Do you have a link to those numbers? Here in Denmark it is the opposite.
  - zik 3y ago
    Your designs are probably far better than ours in Australia. In Australia pedestrians have no right of way at roundabouts and pedestrian crossings aren't normally provided. Basically you cross at your own risk, and it's pretty risky at higher speed, multi-lane roundabouts. This can all be easily be fixed by designing roundabouts with pedestrians in mind. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in Australia.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  Please share your sources because your claims defy common sense and all data I've seen on the topic. > Australia: Crash reduction after roundabout installed: 74% in the casualty crash rate; 32% in property damage only; 68% in pedestrian casualty crashes per year. > Netherlands: crash reduction at roundabouts: 73% in all pedestrian injury crashes; 89 % for pedestrian fatality; 63% for moped injuries; 30% for cycle injuries. > Germany: a 75% decrease in average vehicle pedestrian crashes for 25 intersections converted from stop signs or traffic signals to roundabouts. > France: less than 25% of serious injury crashes or fatalities at roundabouts; 38 fatal or serious type injuries for every 100 crashes at roundabouts vs 55 injury or fatal crashes for every 100 crashes at controlled intersections; crash frequencies 4 times higher at signalized intersections than roundabouts. And more at: An Overview Of Safety Effects On Pedestrians At Modern Roundabouts @ https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecology-and-the-environment/150/22497 https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecolog...
  - zik 3y ago
    I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately. Australia's rules regarding roundabouts prioritise vehicle throughput rather than pedestrian safety. Our road rules give cars priority at roundabouts - pedestrians don't normally get crosswalks and must take their chances dodging through the traffic. This isn't a flaw with roundabouts, it's a flaw in how Australia has chosen to implement them.
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      That's interesting, I don't think I've seen that sort of implementation in common use anywhere with pedestrian traffic. The only implementation I'm familiar with are roundabouts with crosswalks where pedestrians have the right of way. Given the lack of crosswalks, are those roundabouts designed to be crossed by pedestrians at all? > I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately. Here's an alternative: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271423184_An_overview_of_safety_effects_on_pedestrians_at_modern_roundabouts https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271423184_An_overvi... The paper references the following source which I'm not able to access: https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2717863 https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2717863
CalRobert 3y ago
Interestingly I have been surprised at how few drivers will stop to let me and my children cross in the Netherlands. If we walk in to the road they will stop, but I don't want to risk us getting run over. By comparison, I found that in Ireland people would _usually_ stop if you were clearly intending to cross the street.

by dtech 3y ago

I live in NL which has a very high number of roundabouts and this is not my experience at all. Granted most have priority pedestrian crossings which people do respects.

zik 3y ago

It's a documented effect of roundabouts that they tend to result in more pedestrian fatalities than other forms of intersection. But it does depend on the design - it's possible to improve pedestrian safety at the cost of traffic throughput. Guess which choice my country made...

Dah00n 3y ago
Do you have a link to those numbers? Here in Denmark it is the opposite.
- zik 3y ago
  Your designs are probably far better than ours in Australia. In Australia pedestrians have no right of way at roundabouts and pedestrian crossings aren't normally provided. Basically you cross at your own risk, and it's pretty risky at higher speed, multi-lane roundabouts. This can all be easily be fixed by designing roundabouts with pedestrians in mind. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in Australia.
dns_snek 3y ago
Please share your sources because your claims defy common sense and all data I've seen on the topic. > Australia: Crash reduction after roundabout installed: 74% in the casualty crash rate; 32% in property damage only; 68% in pedestrian casualty crashes per year. > Netherlands: crash reduction at roundabouts: 73% in all pedestrian injury crashes; 89 % for pedestrian fatality; 63% for moped injuries; 30% for cycle injuries. > Germany: a 75% decrease in average vehicle pedestrian crashes for 25 intersections converted from stop signs or traffic signals to roundabouts. > France: less than 25% of serious injury crashes or fatalities at roundabouts; 38 fatal or serious type injuries for every 100 crashes at roundabouts vs 55 injury or fatal crashes for every 100 crashes at controlled intersections; crash frequencies 4 times higher at signalized intersections than roundabouts. And more at: An Overview Of Safety Effects On Pedestrians At Modern Roundabouts @ https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecology-and-the-environment/150/22497 https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecolog...
- zik 3y ago
  I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately. Australia's rules regarding roundabouts prioritise vehicle throughput rather than pedestrian safety. Our road rules give cars priority at roundabouts - pedestrians don't normally get crosswalks and must take their chances dodging through the traffic. This isn't a flaw with roundabouts, it's a flaw in how Australia has chosen to implement them.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    That's interesting, I don't think I've seen that sort of implementation in common use anywhere with pedestrian traffic. The only implementation I'm familiar with are roundabouts with crosswalks where pedestrians have the right of way. Given the lack of crosswalks, are those roundabouts designed to be crossed by pedestrians at all? > I wasn't able to access the paper you referenced unfortunately. Here's an alternative: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271423184_An_overview_of_safety_effects_on_pedestrians_at_modern_roundabouts https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271423184_An_overvi... The paper references the following source which I'm not able to access: https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2717863 https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2717863

CalRobert 3y ago

Interestingly I have been surprised at how few drivers will stop to let me and my children cross in the Netherlands. If we walk in to the road they will stop, but I don't want to risk us getting run over. By comparison, I found that in Ireland people would _usually_ stop if you were clearly intending to cross the street.