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(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to dri

(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthought... it sucked. They recently simplified it down to a single car lane and a single bike lane with priority (unsignaled) crosswalks at every entrance. It's slightly slower to drive through, but much less stressful. It's a joy to bike through. As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. So, in my head: single-lane roundabout > intersection > multi-lane roundabout

sfn42 3y ago
I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. You never know what's going on with that driver.
- generic92034 3y ago
  > I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. Optimist! ;)
  - sfn42 3y ago
    By "made sure they see me" I mean they're clearly stopping for me.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  I make sure they stop before stepping out in front of them. Here in the UK we have zebra black and white crossings, and the rule is (as I've been told) cars dont have to stop until your foot is on the crossing, so I stand by the crossing with one foot on the crossing, one foot on the pavement until they stop. Anyway even crossing on these will see cars driving over them and I've been hit by cars on these crossings. I've been in cars where the driver has ignored the red traffic light at a pedestrian crossing, in fact the same one on the way to watch a film at a cinema and the same one on the way back. The drivers problem was inexperience, and too interested in what the other passengers were saying, they wanted to join in the conversation and not pay attention to the road, and there are a lot of people whose attention dangerously fails when driving when they have passengers, but its not illegal, but using a hands free mobile phone is. Legislators and the Police are hypocrits! That driver who ran two red lights at a pedestrian crossing got away with it because they were son of a British Police officer, Detective iirc, even though the pedestrian had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  I mean, yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. I do make eye contact before walking. But I swear, I am able to make myself seen to drivers almost immediately at this particular roundabout. Maybe it's the design, or maybe just my neighborhood's culture. Probably both.
londons_explore 3y ago
unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Bicycles...?
    - kdmccormick 3y ago
      Not necessary in the design I'm talking about, assuming you're driving nice and slow: https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/49/2021/08/powder-house-circle-2021-quick-build-plan-aerial-view.PNG.jpg?w=3840&q=75 https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/s...
pbmonster 3y ago
> As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian crossings are about 3 car lengths away from the roundabout. This means crossing the road takes slightly longer for pedestrians here, but the round about has a "buffer" of three cars that can wait for pedestrians before the round-about starts locking up. But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses.
- guitarbill 3y ago
  > But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses. They're usually not accessible, or very expensive to do so. Also, why should the infrastructure be vehicle-focussed like you describe? There's no reason other than people are so used to it.
- ajuc 3y ago
  Overpasses suck for pedestrians almost as much as underpasses. They create obstacles for older people, handicapped, bicycles, people with kids, etc. They split cities into separate "regions" that feel "far away" mentally which increases traffic. They create opportunities for problematic behaviour like vandalism and crime (because they block vision). If cars create problems with traffic - cars should be paying the price of solving these problems - so it should be cars that have to drive over/under. Let pedestrians stay on the street level. This is how it should be solved (example from my city, I walk there almost daily): https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 There's a fast road for transit on the overpass, under that there's a slower crossing with zebra and bike path. No problem for pedestrians and bikes.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  It does get close to deadlocking traffic at rush hour. Wait time for cars to enter is like 5 minutes at 6pm. And you know, I'm OK with that. There are plenty of other ways to get around my city, so if you want to do it in your own personal metal box at the busiest time of the day, then you can wait 5 extra minutes. Pedestrian overpasses would look butt ugly and way exceed the city's budget for this intersection.

sfn42 3y ago

I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. You never know what's going on with that driver.

generic92034 3y ago
> I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. Optimist! ;)
- sfn42 3y ago
  By "made sure they see me" I mean they're clearly stopping for me.
darkclouds 3y ago
I make sure they stop before stepping out in front of them. Here in the UK we have zebra black and white crossings, and the rule is (as I've been told) cars dont have to stop until your foot is on the crossing, so I stand by the crossing with one foot on the crossing, one foot on the pavement until they stop. Anyway even crossing on these will see cars driving over them and I've been hit by cars on these crossings. I've been in cars where the driver has ignored the red traffic light at a pedestrian crossing, in fact the same one on the way to watch a film at a cinema and the same one on the way back. The drivers problem was inexperience, and too interested in what the other passengers were saying, they wanted to join in the conversation and not pay attention to the road, and there are a lot of people whose attention dangerously fails when driving when they have passengers, but its not illegal, but using a hands free mobile phone is. Legislators and the Police are hypocrits! That driver who ran two red lights at a pedestrian crossing got away with it because they were son of a British Police officer, Detective iirc, even though the pedestrian had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit.
kdmccormick 3y ago
I mean, yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. I do make eye contact before walking. But I swear, I am able to make myself seen to drivers almost immediately at this particular roundabout. Maybe it's the design, or maybe just my neighborhood's culture. Probably both.

londons_explore 3y ago

unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.

kdmccormick 3y ago
why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Bicycles...?
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    Not necessary in the design I'm talking about, assuming you're driving nice and slow: https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/49/2021/08/powder-house-circle-2021-quick-build-plan-aerial-view.PNG.jpg?w=3840&q=75 https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/s...

pbmonster 3y ago

> As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian crossings are about 3 car lengths away from the roundabout. This means crossing the road takes slightly longer for pedestrians here, but the round about has a "buffer" of three cars that can wait for pedestrians before the round-about starts locking up. But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses.

guitarbill 3y ago
> But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses. They're usually not accessible, or very expensive to do so. Also, why should the infrastructure be vehicle-focussed like you describe? There's no reason other than people are so used to it.
ajuc 3y ago
Overpasses suck for pedestrians almost as much as underpasses. They create obstacles for older people, handicapped, bicycles, people with kids, etc. They split cities into separate "regions" that feel "far away" mentally which increases traffic. They create opportunities for problematic behaviour like vandalism and crime (because they block vision). If cars create problems with traffic - cars should be paying the price of solving these problems - so it should be cars that have to drive over/under. Let pedestrians stay on the street level. This is how it should be solved (example from my city, I walk there almost daily): https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 There's a fast road for transit on the overpass, under that there's a slower crossing with zebra and bike path. No problem for pedestrians and bikes.
kdmccormick 3y ago
It does get close to deadlocking traffic at rush hour. Wait time for cars to enter is like 5 minutes at 6pm. And you know, I'm OK with that. There are plenty of other ways to get around my city, so if you want to do it in your own personal metal box at the busiest time of the day, then you can wait 5 extra minutes. Pedestrian overpasses would look butt ugly and way exceed the city's budget for this intersection.