11 ms·

Is your argument that roundabouts are bad for pedestrians? If so why?

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  (Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthought... it sucked. They recently simplified it down to a single car lane and a single bike lane with priority (unsignaled) crosswalks at every entrance. It's slightly slower to drive through, but much less stressful. It's a joy to bike through. As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. So, in my head: single-lane roundabout > intersection > multi-lane roundabout
  - sfn42 3y ago
    I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. You never know what's going on with that driver.
    - generic92034 3y ago
      > I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. Optimist! ;)
      - sfn42 3y ago
        By "made sure they see me" I mean they're clearly stopping for me.
    - darkclouds 3y ago
      I make sure they stop before stepping out in front of them. Here in the UK we have zebra black and white crossings, and the rule is (as I've been told) cars dont have to stop until your foot is on the crossing, so I stand by the crossing with one foot on the crossing, one foot on the pavement until they stop. Anyway even crossing on these will see cars driving over them and I've been hit by cars on these crossings. I've been in cars where the driver has ignored the red traffic light at a pedestrian crossing, in fact the same one on the way to watch a film at a cinema and the same one on the way back. The drivers problem was inexperience, and too interested in what the other passengers were saying, they wanted to join in the conversation and not pay attention to the road, and there are a lot of people whose attention dangerously fails when driving when they have passengers, but its not illegal, but using a hands free mobile phone is. Legislators and the Police are hypocrits! That driver who ran two red lights at a pedestrian crossing got away with it because they were son of a British Police officer, Detective iirc, even though the pedestrian had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit.
    - kdmccormick 3y ago
      I mean, yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. I do make eye contact before walking. But I swear, I am able to make myself seen to drivers almost immediately at this particular roundabout. Maybe it's the design, or maybe just my neighborhood's culture. Probably both.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.
    - kdmccormick 3y ago
      why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?
      - londons_explore 3y ago
        Bicycles...?
        kdmccormick 3y ago
        Not necessary in the design I'm talking about, assuming you're driving nice and slow: https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/49/2021/08/powder-house-circle-2021-quick-build-plan-aerial-view.PNG.jpg?w=3840&q=75 https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/s...
  - pbmonster 3y ago
    > As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian crossings are about 3 car lengths away from the roundabout. This means crossing the road takes slightly longer for pedestrians here, but the round about has a "buffer" of three cars that can wait for pedestrians before the round-about starts locking up. But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses.
    - guitarbill 3y ago
      > But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses. They're usually not accessible, or very expensive to do so. Also, why should the infrastructure be vehicle-focussed like you describe? There's no reason other than people are so used to it.
    - ajuc 3y ago
      Overpasses suck for pedestrians almost as much as underpasses. They create obstacles for older people, handicapped, bicycles, people with kids, etc. They split cities into separate "regions" that feel "far away" mentally which increases traffic. They create opportunities for problematic behaviour like vandalism and crime (because they block vision). If cars create problems with traffic - cars should be paying the price of solving these problems - so it should be cars that have to drive over/under. Let pedestrians stay on the street level. This is how it should be solved (example from my city, I walk there almost daily): https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 There's a fast road for transit on the overpass, under that there's a slower crossing with zebra and bike path. No problem for pedestrians and bikes.
    - kdmccormick 3y ago
      It does get close to deadlocking traffic at rush hour. Wait time for cars to enter is like 5 minutes at 6pm. And you know, I'm OK with that. There are plenty of other ways to get around my city, so if you want to do it in your own personal metal box at the busiest time of the day, then you can wait 5 extra minutes. Pedestrian overpasses would look butt ugly and way exceed the city's budget for this intersection.
- dtech 3y ago
  I live in NL which has a very high number of roundabouts and this is not my experience at all. Granted most have priority pedestrian crossings which people do respects.
  - zik 3y ago
    It's a documented effect of roundabouts that they tend to result in more pedestrian fatalities than other forms of intersection. But it does depend on the design - it's possible to improve pedestrian safety at the cost of traffic throughput. Guess which choice my country made...
    - Dah00n 3y ago
      Do you have a link to those numbers? Here in Denmark it is the opposite.
      - zik 3y ago
        Your designs are probably far better than ours in Australia. In Australia pedestrians have no right of way at roundabouts and pedestrian crossings aren't normally provided. Basically you cross at your own risk, and it's pretty risky at higher speed, multi-lane roundabouts. This can all be easily be fixed by designing roundabouts with pedestrians in mind. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in Australia.
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      Please share your sources because your claims defy common sense and all data I've seen on the topic. > Australia: Crash reduction after roundabout installed: 74% in the casualty crash rate; 32% in property damage only; 68% in pedestrian casualty crashes per year. > Netherlands: crash reduction at roundabouts: 73% in all pedestrian injury crashes; 89 % for pedestrian fatality; 63% for moped injuries; 30% for cycle injuries. > Germany: a 75% decrease in average vehicle pedestrian crashes for 25 intersections converted from stop signs or traffic signals to roundabouts. > France: less than 25% of serious injury crashes or fatalities at roundabouts; 38 fatal or serious type injuries for every 100 crashes at roundabouts vs 55 injury or fatal crashes for every 100 crashes at controlled intersections; crash frequencies 4 times higher at signalized intersections than roundabouts. And more at: An Overview Of Safety Effects On Pedestrians At Modern Roundabouts @ https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecology-and-the-environment/150/22497 https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecolog...
- kubb 3y ago
  Underpasses completely solve it. For small, low-traffic roundabouts, you just need pedestrian crossings like on a normal intersection, preferably with an isle between the opposing traffic lanes.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    underpasses should be built for cars, not people. I have recently tried navigating the world, temporarily, with a mobility imparement, and boy does it change your perspective on things. Why do I, as a pedestrian, have to go down and then back up, why is the guy sitting in a box with 200 horsepower not the one going up and down? Also car underpasses do not become a public toilet the way pedestrian ones do Why are able bodied men waiting in a queue for an elevator? Why does a train station in the middle of a spacious suburb have no elevator, no ramp, and no way to get out if your can't use stairs?
    - philwelch 3y ago
      > Why does a train station in the middle of a spacious suburb have no elevator, no ramp, and no way to get out if your can't use stairs? As an American it’s often surprising to me how many countries lack any analog to the Americans with Disabilities Act.
      - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        They do, the station is just 100 years old and the act does not force them to upgrade old infrastructure. There is a clear difference between how quickly infrastructure for cars gets fixed, and how a simple ramp could be not installed at a train station for decades.
- gambiting 3y ago
  Having lived in Poland for a long time - there's no issue mixing roundabouts and pedestrians, if anything they make is super easy - every exit has its own zebra crossing which means people exiting the roundabout have to stop to let you cross, which actually works well with the inherent design of the roundabout, or for really large ones with multiple lanes you just have lights.
  - ajuc 3y ago
    Yup, I live in Poland and walk A LOTb(about 8km a day for last 3 years). The only issue is when the roundabout is huge, and the alternative huge crossing would suck even more. Just make the roads smaller in general and pedestrians will be fine.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    I think the problem is that in America people will drive over you even in a zebra crossing. There are plenty of marked crossings on, say, Santa Monica blvd. but drivers still routinely kill people using them.
  - brynx97 3y ago
    As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are a lot of other related things, but in general, Poland in my mind places people above cars, so pedestrians are much safer walking around. The US could benefit greatly with this change in attitude, but I feel there is too much road rage and selfishness to accomodate this mindset on the road.
    - nine_k 3y ago
      In the US this also happens, if, like in Krakow, you happen to try it in an actual old and dense city, like NYC. It of course cannot happen in car-oriented suburbs, where you a driver can't even expect pedestrians to exist.
- occz 3y ago
  >The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian. This can surely be remedied by having the crossings being raised, acting as speed bumps for the cars and providing a better crossing experience for the pedestrian (or cyclist). I'm not entirely convinced that the lack of lights would inherently mean that roundabouts are less safe for pedestrians than a signalled intersection - roundabouts remove the concept of running a red, since a car by design has to slow down to navigate the roundabout. Finally, as a pedestrian, I can cross a roundabout whenever I want to, no beg buttons or waiting for green required. Do you have any statistics on their claimed lower safety?
  - michaelt 3y ago
    Here in the UK, any difficult-to-cross junction will have a roundabout, simply because our road designers love roundabouts. And for large/busy roundabouts, cars will be in constant motion meaning there won't be gaps in the traffic flow for pedestrians to cross. If you try to cross [1] on foot at a busy period, it's not a particularly fun experience. Of course, I'm not sure any road layout could make such a junction easy to cross, given the amount of traffic and number of lanes involved. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6428928,-0.2553056,17z?ucbcb=1&entry=ttu https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6428928,-0.2553056,17z?ucb...
    - leni536 3y ago
      Especially that not many roundabouts have zebra crossing for the pedestrians in the UK.
    - RyanHamilton 3y ago
      That link is an out of town shopping/restaruant area with nearby suburbs on the edge of town. In fact the whole town of Borehamwood looks like a London commuter town built for cars. low density semi-detached housing with every house having 2 cars. Very depressing. Trying to make that friendly is like trying to make a race car fuel efficient. Somewhere like Brighton, where places are walkabale is much nicer.
    - Reason077 3y ago
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  No reason roundabout entrances/exits cannot be properly sized to reduce pedestrian crossing distance. There's also nothing stopping us from adding yield lights when pedestrians are detected. Poorly designed roundabouts and intersections are terrible, yes, but they don't have to be.
globular-toast 3y ago
Have you ever tried to cross one? In the UK pedestrians technically have priority at roundabouts now but this doesn't change anything with basically no drivers giving way (and no enforcement). The best compromise is an underpass for pedestrians but this creates a really confusing layout (you always go the wrong way the first time) and the usual dark/dingy/scary problems with underpasses.
- masklinn 3y ago
  > Have you ever tried to cross one? I do so almost every day. Pretty much every roundabout has marked crossings with islands between the lanes, drivers slow down on entry so easily yield to a pedestrian trying to cross, and the crossing is about a car length out of the roundabout so on exit drivers have the space to both be out of the roundabout and yield to pedestrians. Then again I’m in a country where drivers are generally respectful of pedestrians, especially on marked crossings most drivers will actively stop if they see a pedestrian getting close to a crossing.
  - vinay427 3y ago
    > Then again I’m in a country where drivers are generally respectful of pedestrians, especially on marked crossings most drivers will actively stop if they see a pedestrian getting close to a crossing. This seems to not generally be the case in the UK, or at least in any of the large and small cities in England that I’ve spent time in. Except for zebra crossings (which are few and far between at crossings compared to most of Western/Central Europe or even the US/Canada) drivers seem to rarely stop proactively, if ever.
    - iggldiggl 3y ago
      For a long time the UK had a rule whereby turning traffic only had to yield to parallel pedestrians already crossing the street. Only relatively recently did the rule change to turning road traffic having to yield to all pedestrians walking alongside, even if they're only about to start crossing. Coming from Germany, that difference in rules was always noticeable when going on a vacation to the UK.
gpvos 3y ago
More that they aren't really taken into consideration, as the article shows by not showing.
youngtaff 3y ago
It’s often had to cross the road after a roundabout as drivers are too busy accelerating to get off the roundabout For on near us it’s even worse as even though there’s an island to aid crossing the road signs are place in position that limits pedestrians view of the traffic leaving the roundabout Fortunately they built a light controlled crossing a 100m further on
watwut 3y ago
Personally, I avoid them, because they typically take longer to get across. First, the traffic just seems to be that way - I am never sure where the car inside it is going and whether the driver is noticing me. Second, they tend to be bigger and typically I have to take detour instead of going straight. I find intersections easier to cross. Especially those with traffic light easier to cross. The worst is when introduction of it means I have to cross multiple crossings instead of one.

The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian.

kdmccormick 3y ago
(Warning: Anecdata) There was a multi-lane roundabout near me with traffic signals and pedestrian crossing signals and all. It was an absolute nightmare to drive through, bike through, or cross on foot. Cars pressured one another to drive aggressively, pedestrians had to wait for walk signals, cars got confused and blew through the crosswalks by accident even when pedestrians had walk signals, bikes were an afterthought... it sucked. They recently simplified it down to a single car lane and a single bike lane with priority (unsignaled) crosswalks at every entrance. It's slightly slower to drive through, but much less stressful. It's a joy to bike through. As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. So, in my head: single-lane roundabout > intersection > multi-lane roundabout
- sfn42 3y ago
  I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. You never know what's going on with that driver.
  - generic92034 3y ago
    > I never walk out in front of cars until I have made sure they see me. Optimist! ;)
    - sfn42 3y ago
      By "made sure they see me" I mean they're clearly stopping for me.
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    I make sure they stop before stepping out in front of them. Here in the UK we have zebra black and white crossings, and the rule is (as I've been told) cars dont have to stop until your foot is on the crossing, so I stand by the crossing with one foot on the crossing, one foot on the pavement until they stop. Anyway even crossing on these will see cars driving over them and I've been hit by cars on these crossings. I've been in cars where the driver has ignored the red traffic light at a pedestrian crossing, in fact the same one on the way to watch a film at a cinema and the same one on the way back. The drivers problem was inexperience, and too interested in what the other passengers were saying, they wanted to join in the conversation and not pay attention to the road, and there are a lot of people whose attention dangerously fails when driving when they have passengers, but its not illegal, but using a hands free mobile phone is. Legislators and the Police are hypocrits! That driver who ran two red lights at a pedestrian crossing got away with it because they were son of a British Police officer, Detective iirc, even though the pedestrian had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    I mean, yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. I do make eye contact before walking. But I swear, I am able to make myself seen to drivers almost immediately at this particular roundabout. Maybe it's the design, or maybe just my neighborhood's culture. Probably both.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  unsignalled crosswalks at roundabout exits have a pretty high fatality rate. People on the roundabout are still checking their mirrors, wondering if they took the wrong exit, and are otherwise distracted while leaving the roundabout, and have a habit of just running over a pedestrian.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    why would someone in a single-lane roundabout be checking their mirrors?
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Bicycles...?
      - kdmccormick 3y ago
        Not necessary in the design I'm talking about, assuming you're driving nice and slow: https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/49/2021/08/powder-house-circle-2021-quick-build-plan-aerial-view.PNG.jpg?w=3840&q=75 https://lede-admin.mass.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/s...
- pbmonster 3y ago
  > As a pedestrian, I love it because I don't have to wait for a walk signal... I just cross, and entering traffic is obligated to yield to me. Not only entering traffic, also traffic leaving the roundabout. Which means this only works for low traffic intersections, since a single a busy pedestrian crossing can dead-lock the entire roundabout in all directions. My city has a slight modification of this: the pedestrian crossings are about 3 car lengths away from the roundabout. This means crossing the road takes slightly longer for pedestrians here, but the round about has a "buffer" of three cars that can wait for pedestrians before the round-about starts locking up. But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses.
  - guitarbill 3y ago
    > But really, for busy roundabouts, pedestrian overpasses are the only sane choice. Ugly as hell to look at, but easily more comfortable than underpasses. They're usually not accessible, or very expensive to do so. Also, why should the infrastructure be vehicle-focussed like you describe? There's no reason other than people are so used to it.
  - ajuc 3y ago
    Overpasses suck for pedestrians almost as much as underpasses. They create obstacles for older people, handicapped, bicycles, people with kids, etc. They split cities into separate "regions" that feel "far away" mentally which increases traffic. They create opportunities for problematic behaviour like vandalism and crime (because they block vision). If cars create problems with traffic - cars should be paying the price of solving these problems - so it should be cars that have to drive over/under. Let pedestrians stay on the street level. This is how it should be solved (example from my city, I walk there almost daily): https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFBK6B6Q6LULQtSa6 There's a fast road for transit on the overpass, under that there's a slower crossing with zebra and bike path. No problem for pedestrians and bikes.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    It does get close to deadlocking traffic at rush hour. Wait time for cars to enter is like 5 minutes at 6pm. And you know, I'm OK with that. There are plenty of other ways to get around my city, so if you want to do it in your own personal metal box at the busiest time of the day, then you can wait 5 extra minutes. Pedestrian overpasses would look butt ugly and way exceed the city's budget for this intersection.
dtech 3y ago
I live in NL which has a very high number of roundabouts and this is not my experience at all. Granted most have priority pedestrian crossings which people do respects.
- zik 3y ago
  It's a documented effect of roundabouts that they tend to result in more pedestrian fatalities than other forms of intersection. But it does depend on the design - it's possible to improve pedestrian safety at the cost of traffic throughput. Guess which choice my country made...
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    Do you have a link to those numbers? Here in Denmark it is the opposite.
    - zik 3y ago
      Your designs are probably far better than ours in Australia. In Australia pedestrians have no right of way at roundabouts and pedestrian crossings aren't normally provided. Basically you cross at your own risk, and it's pretty risky at higher speed, multi-lane roundabouts. This can all be easily be fixed by designing roundabouts with pedestrians in mind. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in Australia.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    Please share your sources because your claims defy common sense and all data I've seen on the topic. > Australia: Crash reduction after roundabout installed: 74% in the casualty crash rate; 32% in property damage only; 68% in pedestrian casualty crashes per year. > Netherlands: crash reduction at roundabouts: 73% in all pedestrian injury crashes; 89 % for pedestrian fatality; 63% for moped injuries; 30% for cycle injuries. > Germany: a 75% decrease in average vehicle pedestrian crashes for 25 intersections converted from stop signs or traffic signals to roundabouts. > France: less than 25% of serious injury crashes or fatalities at roundabouts; 38 fatal or serious type injuries for every 100 crashes at roundabouts vs 55 injury or fatal crashes for every 100 crashes at controlled intersections; crash frequencies 4 times higher at signalized intersections than roundabouts. And more at: An Overview Of Safety Effects On Pedestrians At Modern Roundabouts @ https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecology-and-the-environment/150/22497 https://www.witpress.com/elibrary/wit-transactions-on-ecolog...
kubb 3y ago
Underpasses completely solve it. For small, low-traffic roundabouts, you just need pedestrian crossings like on a normal intersection, preferably with an isle between the opposing traffic lanes.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  underpasses should be built for cars, not people. I have recently tried navigating the world, temporarily, with a mobility imparement, and boy does it change your perspective on things. Why do I, as a pedestrian, have to go down and then back up, why is the guy sitting in a box with 200 horsepower not the one going up and down? Also car underpasses do not become a public toilet the way pedestrian ones do Why are able bodied men waiting in a queue for an elevator? Why does a train station in the middle of a spacious suburb have no elevator, no ramp, and no way to get out if your can't use stairs?
  - philwelch 3y ago
    > Why does a train station in the middle of a spacious suburb have no elevator, no ramp, and no way to get out if your can't use stairs? As an American it’s often surprising to me how many countries lack any analog to the Americans with Disabilities Act.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      They do, the station is just 100 years old and the act does not force them to upgrade old infrastructure. There is a clear difference between how quickly infrastructure for cars gets fixed, and how a simple ramp could be not installed at a train station for decades.
gambiting 3y ago
Having lived in Poland for a long time - there's no issue mixing roundabouts and pedestrians, if anything they make is super easy - every exit has its own zebra crossing which means people exiting the roundabout have to stop to let you cross, which actually works well with the inherent design of the roundabout, or for really large ones with multiple lanes you just have lights.
- ajuc 3y ago
  Yup, I live in Poland and walk A LOTb(about 8km a day for last 3 years). The only issue is when the roundabout is huge, and the alternative huge crossing would suck even more. Just make the roads smaller in general and pedestrians will be fine.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  I think the problem is that in America people will drive over you even in a zebra crossing. There are plenty of marked crossings on, say, Santa Monica blvd. but drivers still routinely kill people using them.
- brynx97 3y ago
  As an American living in Krakow for the last 15 months, Poland has near universal respect for pedestrian right of way. If there is even the possibility that a pedestrian needs to cross at a cross-walk, cars will slow and stop. In the US, this would never happen. When new Americans come through, we have to tell them very plainly they must stop for pedestrians everywhere, it is sacred that you let them cross. There are a lot of other related things, but in general, Poland in my mind places people above cars, so pedestrians are much safer walking around. The US could benefit greatly with this change in attitude, but I feel there is too much road rage and selfishness to accomodate this mindset on the road.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    In the US this also happens, if, like in Krakow, you happen to try it in an actual old and dense city, like NYC. It of course cannot happen in car-oriented suburbs, where you a driver can't even expect pedestrians to exist.
occz 3y ago
>The lack of lights and increase in number of crossings (for non-tiny ones) make them pretty terrible to cross as a pedestrian. This can surely be remedied by having the crossings being raised, acting as speed bumps for the cars and providing a better crossing experience for the pedestrian (or cyclist). I'm not entirely convinced that the lack of lights would inherently mean that roundabouts are less safe for pedestrians than a signalled intersection - roundabouts remove the concept of running a red, since a car by design has to slow down to navigate the roundabout. Finally, as a pedestrian, I can cross a roundabout whenever I want to, no beg buttons or waiting for green required. Do you have any statistics on their claimed lower safety?
- michaelt 3y ago
  Here in the UK, any difficult-to-cross junction will have a roundabout, simply because our road designers love roundabouts. And for large/busy roundabouts, cars will be in constant motion meaning there won't be gaps in the traffic flow for pedestrians to cross. If you try to cross [1] on foot at a busy period, it's not a particularly fun experience. Of course, I'm not sure any road layout could make such a junction easy to cross, given the amount of traffic and number of lanes involved. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6428928,-0.2553056,17z?ucbcb=1&entry=ttu https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6428928,-0.2553056,17z?ucb...
  - leni536 3y ago
    Especially that not many roundabouts have zebra crossing for the pedestrians in the UK.
  - RyanHamilton 3y ago
    That link is an out of town shopping/restaruant area with nearby suburbs on the edge of town. In fact the whole town of Borehamwood looks like a London commuter town built for cars. low density semi-detached housing with every house having 2 cars. Very depressing. Trying to make that friendly is like trying to make a race car fuel efficient. Somewhere like Brighton, where places are walkabale is much nicer.
  - Reason077 3y ago
xboxnolifes 3y ago
No reason roundabout entrances/exits cannot be properly sized to reduce pedestrian crossing distance. There's also nothing stopping us from adding yield lights when pedestrians are detected. Poorly designed roundabouts and intersections are terrible, yes, but they don't have to be.

globular-toast 3y ago

Have you ever tried to cross one? In the UK pedestrians technically have priority at roundabouts now but this doesn't change anything with basically no drivers giving way (and no enforcement). The best compromise is an underpass for pedestrians but this creates a really confusing layout (you always go the wrong way the first time) and the usual dark/dingy/scary problems with underpasses.

masklinn 3y ago
> Have you ever tried to cross one? I do so almost every day. Pretty much every roundabout has marked crossings with islands between the lanes, drivers slow down on entry so easily yield to a pedestrian trying to cross, and the crossing is about a car length out of the roundabout so on exit drivers have the space to both be out of the roundabout and yield to pedestrians. Then again I’m in a country where drivers are generally respectful of pedestrians, especially on marked crossings most drivers will actively stop if they see a pedestrian getting close to a crossing.
- vinay427 3y ago
  > Then again I’m in a country where drivers are generally respectful of pedestrians, especially on marked crossings most drivers will actively stop if they see a pedestrian getting close to a crossing. This seems to not generally be the case in the UK, or at least in any of the large and small cities in England that I’ve spent time in. Except for zebra crossings (which are few and far between at crossings compared to most of Western/Central Europe or even the US/Canada) drivers seem to rarely stop proactively, if ever.
  - iggldiggl 3y ago
    For a long time the UK had a rule whereby turning traffic only had to yield to parallel pedestrians already crossing the street. Only relatively recently did the rule change to turning road traffic having to yield to all pedestrians walking alongside, even if they're only about to start crossing. Coming from Germany, that difference in rules was always noticeable when going on a vacation to the UK.

gpvos 3y ago

More that they aren't really taken into consideration, as the article shows by not showing.

youngtaff 3y ago

It’s often had to cross the road after a roundabout as drivers are too busy accelerating to get off the roundabout For on near us it’s even worse as even though there’s an island to aid crossing the road signs are place in position that limits pedestrians view of the traffic leaving the roundabout Fortunately they built a light controlled crossing a 100m further on

watwut 3y ago

Personally, I avoid them, because they typically take longer to get across. First, the traffic just seems to be that way - I am never sure where the car inside it is going and whether the driver is noticing me. Second, they tend to be bigger and typically I have to take detour instead of going straight. I find intersections easier to cross. Especially those with traffic light easier to cross. The worst is when introduction of it means I have to cross multiple crossings instead of one.