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Danemark is a very pro-entrepreneur country. If you want to setup a business, it is very easy, you can tax deduct nearly everything and you will have all the be

by Loic 15y ago

Danemark is a very pro-entrepreneur country. If you want to setup a business, it is very easy, you can tax deduct nearly everything and you will have all the benefits of a very well run country. I have been working for both funded and bootstrapped startups in Denmark and Denmark is definitely one of the most business friendly country in Europe. You must put the law in the context of the country, here it simply says: "you can setup a company here, you will enjoy everything from Denmark you love, but do not expect to make it big, sale and not pay back your due". They want people starting businesses and then staying there. Just that. Take a look at what you get in the "all inclusive" package when living in Denmark: free education (in fact you are paid to go to the university), very good health care system, low violence, relaxed life, well run infrastructure you can trust, etc...

netcan 15y ago
Those are good point. But they're almost besides the point. This tax system might be fair. The complaints aren't really about that. They are about the consequences. - The tax in question targets an additional 25% on any shareholder with less than 10% ownership of a company. This brings the marginal tax rate up to 67% for an entrepreneur exiting a company - Early stage investors who were willing to invest in less than 10% of a company have taken their money elsewhere - DVCA report found that 62 % of angel investors have declined to invest, and more than a third of Danish IT companies reported they have already been affected by the Entrepreneur Tax. - this tax also makes it impossible for growth companies to accept additional funding -- even if it is offered. The structure of the Entrepreneur Tax makes individuals personally liable to pay capital gains tax from the increased valuation - "It wasn't as much a matter of moving our activities out of Denmark as it was it was a matter of not placing them there in the first place." says Michael Schmidt, Co-founder of Exit Strategy Entertainment - "'we would really like to stay as independent as possible. Part of being independent is that we would preferably not pull in any large investors but are rather looking at the angels who in general are targeting a sub-10% share" Fair or not, you don't want these effects.
- mjwalshe 15y ago
  well making such a huge difference between owning 10% or 11% is not fair in any sense of the word - sounds rather french in favouring national champions where the executives went to ena with the technocrats running the civil service. It also fucks over any employee participation in a company - hop on eurostar and set up in london would be my sugestion
  - netcan 15y ago
    The article doesn't even mention that. Maybe the most common caes of employee stock/options are exempt under some other law(s)
    - mjwalshe 15y ago
      Normaly thers no diference to the shares I own as an employee and as an investor (leaving aside the use of share classes to maitain control eg NI and Google)
    - joshuakarjala 15y ago
      Actually now - employee stock/options are taxed as personal income as soon as it is allotted to the employee. Pretty insane
digitalengineer 15y ago
"do not expect to make it big, sale and not pay back your due" Someone who creates a company where here was previously none creates jobs and pays taxes every step of the way. I feel it is morally wrong to 'extra-tax' them just because they make it big. You know people just opt to skip Denmark all together right? (like they're already doing now). There really is no 'free' education. It is paid by the productive people working in Denmark. Government can only spend money they take from their people using taxes.
- _delirium 15y ago
  If people skip Denmark entirely, that's one thing, but many of the companies trying to dodge taxes on lucrative exits were built on very generous government funds, and only dislike the Danish social model later, after having taken advantage of it for years when it suited them. For example, Playdead has received around $2m in government funds during the past few years, not to mention all the free health care for its employees. Now, its owners now are looking for ways to leave the country to lower taxes on a possible sale, which to many Danes seems like an attempt to cheat the system, against at least the spirit of the arrangement under which they accepted the funds.
  - digitalengineer 15y ago
    There's your real problem right there: "Playdead has received around $2m in government funds" Government "playing" Angel Investor. Every investor wants a maximum return on investment. Not so for government. They want to brag about how many companies they attracted (by changing the rules for some companies). This is where things can only go wrong.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
viandante 15y ago
When I was in Denmark I found really irritating the pay Danish students get for University (600 euros net). You can put it any way you want, but that creates all sort of bad incentives and crappy education (which I did see. VIA, anybody?). Most of those "free" things are not really free also. You will pay them with extremely "unfair" taxes (180% of tax on the value of a new car, anybody?) and a State that believes is fine to dictate the proper way of doing things. No thanks.
- Loic 15y ago
  DTU is providing extremely good education. You consider taxes as unfair, but if they are still in play, after getting left and right governments, it is maybe because in fact, Danish people are happy with them.
  - digitalengineer 15y ago
    Yes, Danish people are happy with them. Don't know for how long though. The population of Denmark is aging rapidly and already a very small minority of working people is paying for everyone. But because they are a minority it's like 2 wolfs and a sheep 'voting' what's for dinner... <Quote> Denmark has an entire population of 5,350,000 people. Of them, 1,150,000 are below 18 years old. Of the remaining 4,200,000 people, 2,214,000 people receive government transfer payments (not counting 260,000 students that receive public scholarships of $550 per month). From taxing their citizens into poverty to forcing them to endure the highest electricity rates in the world due to the cult like obsession with lowering carbon emissions (god forbid it actually warms up a bit in Denmark!), the Danish State takes top marks for keeping the prisoners down. I thought I might share with you a few of the observations and thoughts I had on the worker’s paradise of Denmark. http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/3/21/denmark-socialisms-prize-nation-slave-state.html http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/3/21/denmark-social... </quote>
    - _delirium 15y ago
      Ah yes, "taxing their citizens into poverty". Have you looked up what a typical after-tax income is in Denmark? It is a very well-off kind of poverty, if it's poverty! More generally I'd suggest that 30 seconds of Googling and some quotes from a blog run by gold-bugs doesn't really constitute an educated opinion about Denmark...

by Loic 15y ago

netcan 15y ago

Those are good point. But they're almost besides the point. This tax system might be fair. The complaints aren't really about that. They are about the consequences. - The tax in question targets an additional 25% on any shareholder with less than 10% ownership of a company. This brings the marginal tax rate up to 67% for an entrepreneur exiting a company - Early stage investors who were willing to invest in less than 10% of a company have taken their money elsewhere - DVCA report found that 62 % of angel investors have declined to invest, and more than a third of Danish IT companies reported they have already been affected by the Entrepreneur Tax. - this tax also makes it impossible for growth companies to accept additional funding -- even if it is offered. The structure of the Entrepreneur Tax makes individuals personally liable to pay capital gains tax from the increased valuation - "It wasn't as much a matter of moving our activities out of Denmark as it was it was a matter of not placing them there in the first place." says Michael Schmidt, Co-founder of Exit Strategy Entertainment - "'we would really like to stay as independent as possible. Part of being independent is that we would preferably not pull in any large investors but are rather looking at the angels who in general are targeting a sub-10% share" Fair or not, you don't want these effects.

mjwalshe 15y ago
well making such a huge difference between owning 10% or 11% is not fair in any sense of the word - sounds rather french in favouring national champions where the executives went to ena with the technocrats running the civil service. It also fucks over any employee participation in a company - hop on eurostar and set up in london would be my sugestion
- netcan 15y ago
  The article doesn't even mention that. Maybe the most common caes of employee stock/options are exempt under some other law(s)
  - mjwalshe 15y ago
    Normaly thers no diference to the shares I own as an employee and as an investor (leaving aside the use of share classes to maitain control eg NI and Google)
  - joshuakarjala 15y ago
    Actually now - employee stock/options are taxed as personal income as soon as it is allotted to the employee. Pretty insane

digitalengineer 15y ago

"do not expect to make it big, sale and not pay back your due" Someone who creates a company where here was previously none creates jobs and pays taxes every step of the way. I feel it is morally wrong to 'extra-tax' them just because they make it big. You know people just opt to skip Denmark all together right? (like they're already doing now). There really is no 'free' education. It is paid by the productive people working in Denmark. Government can only spend money they take from their people using taxes.

_delirium 15y ago
If people skip Denmark entirely, that's one thing, but many of the companies trying to dodge taxes on lucrative exits were built on very generous government funds, and only dislike the Danish social model later, after having taken advantage of it for years when it suited them. For example, Playdead has received around $2m in government funds during the past few years, not to mention all the free health care for its employees. Now, its owners now are looking for ways to leave the country to lower taxes on a possible sale, which to many Danes seems like an attempt to cheat the system, against at least the spirit of the arrangement under which they accepted the funds.
- digitalengineer 15y ago
  There's your real problem right there: "Playdead has received around $2m in government funds" Government "playing" Angel Investor. Every investor wants a maximum return on investment. Not so for government. They want to brag about how many companies they attracted (by changing the rules for some companies). This is where things can only go wrong.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

viandante 15y ago

When I was in Denmark I found really irritating the pay Danish students get for University (600 euros net). You can put it any way you want, but that creates all sort of bad incentives and crappy education (which I did see. VIA, anybody?). Most of those "free" things are not really free also. You will pay them with extremely "unfair" taxes (180% of tax on the value of a new car, anybody?) and a State that believes is fine to dictate the proper way of doing things. No thanks.

Loic 15y ago
DTU is providing extremely good education. You consider taxes as unfair, but if they are still in play, after getting left and right governments, it is maybe because in fact, Danish people are happy with them.
- digitalengineer 15y ago
  Yes, Danish people are happy with them. Don't know for how long though. The population of Denmark is aging rapidly and already a very small minority of working people is paying for everyone. But because they are a minority it's like 2 wolfs and a sheep 'voting' what's for dinner... <Quote> Denmark has an entire population of 5,350,000 people. Of them, 1,150,000 are below 18 years old. Of the remaining 4,200,000 people, 2,214,000 people receive government transfer payments (not counting 260,000 students that receive public scholarships of $550 per month). From taxing their citizens into poverty to forcing them to endure the highest electricity rates in the world due to the cult like obsession with lowering carbon emissions (god forbid it actually warms up a bit in Denmark!), the Danish State takes top marks for keeping the prisoners down. I thought I might share with you a few of the observations and thoughts I had on the worker’s paradise of Denmark. http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/3/21/denmark-socialisms-prize-nation-slave-state.html http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/3/21/denmark-social... </quote>
  - _delirium 15y ago
    Ah yes, "taxing their citizens into poverty". Have you looked up what a typical after-tax income is in Denmark? It is a very well-off kind of poverty, if it's poverty! More generally I'd suggest that 30 seconds of Googling and some quotes from a blog run by gold-bugs doesn't really constitute an educated opinion about Denmark...