3 ms·

Two lane roundabouts are pretty good. More than two lanes are very questionable. And roundabouts which include... stoplights!?!? are just stupid. I live in t

Two lane roundabouts are pretty good. More than two lanes are very questionable. And roundabouts which include... stoplights!?!? are just stupid. I live in the Netherlands, where roundabouts are very common. In many cases, they are an improvement. But NL is also a huge bike country. And at most roundabouts, bikes have right of way. So as a car driver, you have to worry about other cars as well as bikes which may turn (go away from the roundabout) or continue (cross the adjacent road circularly around the roundabout. In good visibility conditions, it's ok. And by OK, I mean it can still really f* up car traffic, especially when it is a high traffic area not far from a school. In lower vis conditions, and/or when electric higher speed bikes are concerned, it becomes a whole new kind of danger. I would argue that the benefits of roundabouts diminish or fully disappear when the number of lanes exceeds 2, or when traffic lights are added to roundabouts, or (and!) especially when bike paths intersect with and circulate around the roundabouts.

LRVNHQ 3y ago
> But NL is also a huge bike country. And at most roundabouts, bikes have right of way. The fact that it's on a case-by-case basis an not actually a consistent traffic law is really awful. To add insult to injury, the only signage is usually a yield sign painted on the road that is invisible as soon as it's dark and the road is wet. And this is of course further combined with the absolute scandalous amount of cyclists who don't have lights at night and are dressed in fully dark clothes. Roundabouts are already a traffic situation that require heightened attention as a driver, so in the interest of safety I believe crossing cyclists should yield to cars at the exit. It's too many things to worry about otherwise. But at the very least, make it the same everywhere so it's always absolutely clear to both drivers and cyclists who has the priority.
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  > To add insult to injury, the only signage is usually a yield sign painted on the road Doesn't the red asphalt denoting a cycleway also typically continue across the exits when cyclists have priority?
  - martijnvds 3y ago
    Generally but not always. The triangle markings on on the ground (like tiny "yield" signs) are a better indicator.
- martijnvds 3y ago
  It's supposed to be consistent: within built-up areas ("bebouwde kom") bicycles have priority, outside of those areas they don't have priority.
  - gpvos 3y ago
    In built-up areas it's often (usually?) a bicycle lane, i.e. on the same piece of asphalt as where the cars are. In that case, bicycles always have priority. It's the same as taking a right turn: wait for bikes that go straight. Outside built-up areas it's always a separate bicycle path, often with some distance from the car lanes. The confusion can arise inside built-up areas where there's a separate bicycle path, usually close to the car lanes.
nkozyra 3y ago
> And roundabouts which include... stoplights!?!? are just stupid. I hate these so much. Seems to break the purpose of a roundabout in the first place - to let a single entry and exit pattern dictate the traffic. Stoplights in them fundamentally break their benefit, which is smooth, one-way flow.
mhandley 3y ago
Under light to medium loads, roundabouts are preferable to junctions with stop lights, as you rarely need to wait long to enter the roundabout. But under high loads, they can cause starvation when there are no breaks in traffic along the more major road, so traffic cannot enter from the side road. When that happens, you need to add traffic lights to allow traffic to enter from the side road. But the traffic lights can be set up to only operate at busy times, so then you get the best of both worlds. Traffic lights on a roundabout at quiet times - yes, that's just stupid.

LRVNHQ 3y ago

> But NL is also a huge bike country. And at most roundabouts, bikes have right of way. The fact that it's on a case-by-case basis an not actually a consistent traffic law is really awful. To add insult to injury, the only signage is usually a yield sign painted on the road that is invisible as soon as it's dark and the road is wet. And this is of course further combined with the absolute scandalous amount of cyclists who don't have lights at night and are dressed in fully dark clothes. Roundabouts are already a traffic situation that require heightened attention as a driver, so in the interest of safety I believe crossing cyclists should yield to cars at the exit. It's too many things to worry about otherwise. But at the very least, make it the same everywhere so it's always absolutely clear to both drivers and cyclists who has the priority.

ryukafalz 3y ago
> To add insult to injury, the only signage is usually a yield sign painted on the road Doesn't the red asphalt denoting a cycleway also typically continue across the exits when cyclists have priority?
- martijnvds 3y ago
  Generally but not always. The triangle markings on on the ground (like tiny "yield" signs) are a better indicator.
martijnvds 3y ago
It's supposed to be consistent: within built-up areas ("bebouwde kom") bicycles have priority, outside of those areas they don't have priority.
- gpvos 3y ago
  In built-up areas it's often (usually?) a bicycle lane, i.e. on the same piece of asphalt as where the cars are. In that case, bicycles always have priority. It's the same as taking a right turn: wait for bikes that go straight. Outside built-up areas it's always a separate bicycle path, often with some distance from the car lanes. The confusion can arise inside built-up areas where there's a separate bicycle path, usually close to the car lanes.

nkozyra 3y ago

> And roundabouts which include... stoplights!?!? are just stupid. I hate these so much. Seems to break the purpose of a roundabout in the first place - to let a single entry and exit pattern dictate the traffic. Stoplights in them fundamentally break their benefit, which is smooth, one-way flow.

mhandley 3y ago

Under light to medium loads, roundabouts are preferable to junctions with stop lights, as you rarely need to wait long to enter the roundabout. But under high loads, they can cause starvation when there are no breaks in traffic along the more major road, so traffic cannot enter from the side road. When that happens, you need to add traffic lights to allow traffic to enter from the side road. But the traffic lights can be set up to only operate at busy times, so then you get the best of both worlds. Traffic lights on a roundabout at quiet times - yes, that's just stupid.