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A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need

A key factor in selecting language is ChatGPT. I need to use ChatGPT as a programming sidekick/pair programmer/mentor. Yes, I am not afraid to admit - I need an AI assistant and won't program without it - AI is far too valuable. If ChatGPT struggles with a programming language that is a big problem. I have had a great experience with ChatGPT with TypeScript, SQL, Python, golang, C++. I tried ChatGPT with Rust and it essentially failed - it does not understand the language. AI has become an essential tool for me in programming if the language doesn't do AI or doesn't do it well then that's a huge mark against it.

forrestthewoods 3y ago
ChatGPT 4 has worked great for Rust for me.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  When I tried it a while back it had no grasp of the hard parts of Rust - of which there are many. Not knowing the hard parts is not a workable outcome.
  - forrestthewoods 3y ago
    Did you try ChatGPT 3.5 or 4? There’s a world of difference. Whats an example of a question it failed? I understand Rust pretty well. I can totally see ChatGPT not being able to help with complex lifetime issues. I’ve never asked it such things.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
I tried for a long time for chatgpt to help me write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns. Could not do it. Pasting in an error message, made chatgpt spit out another version of the code with some other error.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Go to ChatGPT and type "write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns". Run it. If there is an error, either debug it or ask ChatGPT to take a different approach. There's something wrong if you can't get it to do this.
  - overgard 3y ago
    There's something more wrong if you need it to do this
  - MrRolleyes 3y ago
    Of course that works, but that's not exactly a task that's likely to trip me up or be a bottleneck in my coding efficiency. The things that are are typically either of sufficient complexity i don't even know how to begin describing it to ChatGPT in a useful way, or require enough domain knowledge it's not worth the effort. Of course, it's still an issue if ChatGPT can't generate trivial rust code, but that seems unrelated to the quality of the language itself.
  - agent327 3y ago
    This is just horrendous. So instead of writing this trivial piece of code yourself you get an AI to write it for you. Then instead of reading and understanding the code you just run it to see what happens. Is there a problem? Just try again, or immediately grab a debugger, because everyone knows that nobody could possibly read and understand a trivial two-line function! Yes, there's something wrong here. But it isn't "not using chatgpt"...
overgard 3y ago
I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that are subtly wrong, so unless you can write the code yourself how can you trust the generated stuff?
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? You're not using the tools available to make you a better and more productive programmer? If you're not using AI as part of your daily workflow you are burning time and money and not maximising your potential. If I was your team lead I'd give you a warning, same as I would if you didn't use an IDE or source control. Being ignorant of programming productivity tools isn't something to be proud of. You should have been up to speed by now on using ChatGPT as part of your daily workflow - it's been out since the start of the year.
  - overgard 3y ago
    I've been coding since I was 8, so... 30 years, about 17 professionally. I'm not averse to new tools at all, but I've yet to see where I would want copilot or chatgpt. The problems I work on daily, like most professional devs, are very specific to how I adapt a large proprietary codebase to do new things to fit specific business requirements, or working with designers and project managers to figure out how we should solve these intricate problems together. AI can't help with that. It'd take a 20 page prompt for it to roughly understand the business even. It can help with toy problems like how to write a well known algorithm, but given that these are well known algorithms and it's basically just copying from open source repo's (with scary legal ambiguity), it's of little use to what I actually do day to day. I'm amused that as a lead you'd "give me a warning ". I've literally never worked with a lead or manager that cares what tools people use, only that the work is good. Actually, if anything a lot of workplaces are asking people to seek approval before using AI, because of the many thorny issues (copyright being one of many) (BTW, I do use chat gpt, just not for coding. It's useful for creative tasks or summaries. I still google what it says because it does make shit up)

forrestthewoods 3y ago

ChatGPT 4 has worked great for Rust for me.

andrewstuart 3y ago
When I tried it a while back it had no grasp of the hard parts of Rust - of which there are many. Not knowing the hard parts is not a workable outcome.
- forrestthewoods 3y ago
  Did you try ChatGPT 3.5 or 4? There’s a world of difference. Whats an example of a question it failed? I understand Rust pretty well. I can totally see ChatGPT not being able to help with complex lifetime issues. I’ve never asked it such things.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

I tried for a long time for chatgpt to help me write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns. Could not do it. Pasting in an error message, made chatgpt spit out another version of the code with some other error.

andrewstuart 3y ago
Go to ChatGPT and type "write a simple function that generated a random array and then summed along the columns". Run it. If there is an error, either debug it or ask ChatGPT to take a different approach. There's something wrong if you can't get it to do this.
- overgard 3y ago
  There's something more wrong if you need it to do this
- MrRolleyes 3y ago
  Of course that works, but that's not exactly a task that's likely to trip me up or be a bottleneck in my coding efficiency. The things that are are typically either of sufficient complexity i don't even know how to begin describing it to ChatGPT in a useful way, or require enough domain knowledge it's not worth the effort. Of course, it's still an issue if ChatGPT can't generate trivial rust code, but that seems unrelated to the quality of the language itself.
- agent327 3y ago
  This is just horrendous. So instead of writing this trivial piece of code yourself you get an AI to write it for you. Then instead of reading and understanding the code you just run it to see what happens. Is there a problem? Just try again, or immediately grab a debugger, because everyone knows that nobody could possibly read and understand a trivial two-line function! Yes, there's something wrong here. But it isn't "not using chatgpt"...

overgard 3y ago

I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? I've not yet had the urge to ask an AI for coding help, ever. The questions that are decoupled enough from a field/project that it might be able to answer seem trivial and easy just to search on. Plus, I'm way more trusting of a Stack Overflow post or even a blog post than what AI generates. I mean, AI hallucinates all the time or generates things that are subtly wrong, so unless you can write the code yourself how can you trust the generated stuff?

andrewstuart 3y ago
I'm not trying to shame you, but how long have you been coding? You're not using the tools available to make you a better and more productive programmer? If you're not using AI as part of your daily workflow you are burning time and money and not maximising your potential. If I was your team lead I'd give you a warning, same as I would if you didn't use an IDE or source control. Being ignorant of programming productivity tools isn't something to be proud of. You should have been up to speed by now on using ChatGPT as part of your daily workflow - it's been out since the start of the year.
- overgard 3y ago
  I've been coding since I was 8, so... 30 years, about 17 professionally. I'm not averse to new tools at all, but I've yet to see where I would want copilot or chatgpt. The problems I work on daily, like most professional devs, are very specific to how I adapt a large proprietary codebase to do new things to fit specific business requirements, or working with designers and project managers to figure out how we should solve these intricate problems together. AI can't help with that. It'd take a 20 page prompt for it to roughly understand the business even. It can help with toy problems like how to write a well known algorithm, but given that these are well known algorithms and it's basically just copying from open source repo's (with scary legal ambiguity), it's of little use to what I actually do day to day. I'm amused that as a lead you'd "give me a warning ". I've literally never worked with a lead or manager that cares what tools people use, only that the work is good. Actually, if anything a lot of workplaces are asking people to seek approval before using AI, because of the many thorny issues (copyright being one of many) (BTW, I do use chat gpt, just not for coding. It's useful for creative tasks or summaries. I still google what it says because it does make shit up)