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I'd switch to nix package management on macOS if it were completely isolated to a single user, didn't demand use of sudo, creating /nix or other global changes,

I'd switch to nix package management on macOS if it were completely isolated to a single user, didn't demand use of sudo, creating /nix or other global changes, or running anything as root. Unfortunately, like Homebrew (except with some changes), MacPorts, and Fink, they seem to be set on global system changes that don't scale.

grhmc 3y ago
Fair enough! Unfortunately that isn't likely to be true any time soon, since macOS doesn't offer the namespacing primitives necessary for that to be possible like it is on Linux. You can bet once it is feasibly a good experience, DetSys will be hot on its tracks to make it happen. Until then, then :).
- oldbbsnickname 3y ago
  Baloney. chroot and execvpe work with mere temporary directories. This is roughly how homebrew does "isolated" builds. You don't need virtualization, but you may want it.
  - grhmc 3y ago
    We don't need virtualization (that'd be easy.) We'd need mount namespacing and bind mounts to place a directory in your home directory at /nix during the process execution. EDIT: User and process namespacing would help a lot as well, to improve build time isolation.
    - oldbbsnickname 3y ago
      You're providing a synthetic filesystem to every process? If so, that sounds absurd and over-engineered.
      - grhmc 3y ago
        No, however because of the general requirement to use /nix/store as a prefix we do support using this method for avoiding global installations.
      - Tyrubias 3y ago
        I’m no expert, but my understanding is without this you cannot avoid the need to create /nix using sudo. On a tangent: I’m a big fan of Homebrew, but Nix’s deterministic builds are more isolated than Homebrew’s. Last I heard, Homebrew also tries to avoid keeping around any but the latest version of a formula, which would force you to upgrade. With Nix, your installed libraries are isolated, so I can (for example) open a shell with GCC 5 and Python 2 and another with GCC 12 and Python 3.12 with absolute confidence there’s no “contamination” so to speak. With Nix you come a lot closer (even on macOS) to achieving the dream of having your entire system declaratively managed, so you can get a brand new machine, pull in your config from GitHub, and have an identical setup with minimal hassle. I think even with `brew bundle` it’s not that easy to achieve this.
  - duped 3y ago
    You can’t chroot on MacOS without disabling SIP
deleted 3y ago
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grhmc 3y ago

Fair enough! Unfortunately that isn't likely to be true any time soon, since macOS doesn't offer the namespacing primitives necessary for that to be possible like it is on Linux. You can bet once it is feasibly a good experience, DetSys will be hot on its tracks to make it happen. Until then, then :).

oldbbsnickname 3y ago
Baloney. chroot and execvpe work with mere temporary directories. This is roughly how homebrew does "isolated" builds. You don't need virtualization, but you may want it.
- grhmc 3y ago
  We don't need virtualization (that'd be easy.) We'd need mount namespacing and bind mounts to place a directory in your home directory at /nix during the process execution. EDIT: User and process namespacing would help a lot as well, to improve build time isolation.
  - oldbbsnickname 3y ago
    You're providing a synthetic filesystem to every process? If so, that sounds absurd and over-engineered.
    - grhmc 3y ago
      No, however because of the general requirement to use /nix/store as a prefix we do support using this method for avoiding global installations.
    - Tyrubias 3y ago
      I’m no expert, but my understanding is without this you cannot avoid the need to create /nix using sudo. On a tangent: I’m a big fan of Homebrew, but Nix’s deterministic builds are more isolated than Homebrew’s. Last I heard, Homebrew also tries to avoid keeping around any but the latest version of a formula, which would force you to upgrade. With Nix, your installed libraries are isolated, so I can (for example) open a shell with GCC 5 and Python 2 and another with GCC 12 and Python 3.12 with absolute confidence there’s no “contamination” so to speak. With Nix you come a lot closer (even on macOS) to achieving the dream of having your entire system declaratively managed, so you can get a brand new machine, pull in your config from GitHub, and have an identical setup with minimal hassle. I think even with `brew bundle` it’s not that easy to achieve this.
- duped 3y ago
  You can’t chroot on MacOS without disabling SIP

deleted 3y ago

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