4 ms·

I disagree. As a pedestrian, I only have to worry about cars coming from 2 directions (on to/off the roundabout) instead of 4 at an intersection. I'm confused

I disagree. As a pedestrian, I only have to worry about cars coming from 2 directions (on to/off the roundabout) instead of 4 at an intersection. I'm confused by your comment that drivers merging into a roundabout are too distracted. As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. I only have to look for pedestrians crossing in front of me and cars coming from the left. When coming off the roundabout I only have to check for pedestrians crossing the exit I want to take. At an intersection, all these checks are mashed together into. I have to keep track of all the cars at the intersection plus the pedestrians that may be crossing in front of me and the exit I want to take.

ghaff 3y ago
It depends on the roundabout. A low traffic, single-lane roundabout is pretty straightforward. There are also heavy traffic two-lane roundabouts in my area. One is pretty much impossible for a pedestrian to traverse. (Not that it's in a pedestrianized area anyway.) The other two can only be traversed at relatively nearby traffic lights.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  I see near-accidents all the time, when a driver is stopped at the entrance to a roundabout, looking left at the cars, and then a pedestrian (or more likely, a cyclist/escooter rider) comes from the right. The driver starts going when there's a clearing in the cars, before realizing that there's someone approaching from the right (I'm in the US, so cars are approaching from the left).
swatcoder 3y ago
With the exception of decorative 1-lane roundabouts in sleepy residential neighborhoods, all the roundabouts I encounter in Central and Southern California are 2-3 lane circles with various lane->exit mappings, some of which overlap and some of which are exclusive. Drivers coming into them, who want to actually benefit from the roundabout and not just turn it into an awkward stop sign, are responsible for reversing the exit to lane mapping, then timing their approach to the intersection with an opening that will let them reach to their lane while maintaining a flow. If they can't manage to do that, of course they're supposed to stop and yield until an appropriate opening becomes available. Inevitably, the designated pedestrian crosswalk is some 5-10+ feet prior to where the car would have to stop if it does need to yield while awaiting an opening. Compared to a signaled intersection or a 2/4-way stop, where the pedestrian crossing coincides with a natural traffic stop, this basically means that approximately zero cars actually stop for pedestrians. Some are too busy to notice and others just don't want to have to deal with a stop and so ignore their responsibility. I assume you must live somewhere else, where roundabouts are smaller and play some different role than here.
- kieranmaine 3y ago
  My experience of roundabouts includes single lanes ones in sleepy residential neighbours all the way up to the infamous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst.... I'd argue that 1 lane roundabouts are far from decorative in residential neighbourhoods and are safer and allow for a better flow of traffic. I'm slightly confused by your description, but it sounds like traffic lights for the pedestrian crossings would be a better option (which is often the case with the bigger roundabouts in the UK). Are the roundabouts you referring to like this one https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfxzDWTx4a7WPasUA https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfxzDWTx4a7WPasUA or smaller?
JohnFen 3y ago
> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. Excepting for single-lane roundabouts, I find they require a much higher cognitive load for me.
InSteady 3y ago
At least if we are talking about the US, it is a fact that many drivers struggle and tunnel vision. Probably because they are so uncommon. It's great that you don't. Drivers that turn into drooling idiots may be the exception rather than the rule, but it happens frequently enough at the traffic circle in my neighborhood that I've learned to treat it with more caution than any other crossing in the entire city.
toast0 3y ago
> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. I only have to look for pedestrians crossing in front of me and cars coming from the left. When coming off the roundabout I only have to check for pedestrians crossing the exit I want to take. I find I sometimes miss pedestrians waiting to cross from the right, because I must look left to merge with oncoming traffic and it's hard to look hard left and to the right at the same time. At a signalized intersection, if all parties follow the signals, there's often no situation where I'm supposed to be looking in both directions for conflicts. If I travel straight through the intersection on a green light, there should be no conflict with pedestrians (although one must always be alert). There may be a stopped or slow vehicle in front if the exit is congested. If an unprotected left turn is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict while I traverse the first half of the intersection, and if right on red is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict as I traverse the second half of the intersection. It's of course useful to be aware of potential for other parties to violate their signals, but look mostly straight but to the left for the first half and mostly straight but to right for the second half works for turns and red light violators ... and mostly straight is pretty good for pedestrians crossing against the light. For turns, pedestrians are in the same direction you're heading, and often the same direction you're looking. Right on red is an exception, but one typically stops behind the line and looks around for pedestrians before crossing the line and looking for an opportunity to merge in. For safety, pedestrian crossings should be moved away from roundabouts, where drivers will see them better, but then that increases the path length for pedestrians and acceptance is low.
whycome 3y ago
> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. What I've seen first hand in Ontario/Canada is that there's a huge increase in cognitive load simply because the roundabouts are still fairly new. Most drivers were never taught about them. They've just appeared. And they aren't completely intuitive for many drivers -- so their entry/exit isn't always ideal/safe.

ghaff 3y ago

It depends on the roundabout. A low traffic, single-lane roundabout is pretty straightforward. There are also heavy traffic two-lane roundabouts in my area. One is pretty much impossible for a pedestrian to traverse. (Not that it's in a pedestrianized area anyway.) The other two can only be traversed at relatively nearby traffic lights.

gnicholas 3y ago
I see near-accidents all the time, when a driver is stopped at the entrance to a roundabout, looking left at the cars, and then a pedestrian (or more likely, a cyclist/escooter rider) comes from the right. The driver starts going when there's a clearing in the cars, before realizing that there's someone approaching from the right (I'm in the US, so cars are approaching from the left).

swatcoder 3y ago

With the exception of decorative 1-lane roundabouts in sleepy residential neighborhoods, all the roundabouts I encounter in Central and Southern California are 2-3 lane circles with various lane->exit mappings, some of which overlap and some of which are exclusive. Drivers coming into them, who want to actually benefit from the roundabout and not just turn it into an awkward stop sign, are responsible for reversing the exit to lane mapping, then timing their approach to the intersection with an opening that will let them reach to their lane while maintaining a flow. If they can't manage to do that, of course they're supposed to stop and yield until an appropriate opening becomes available. Inevitably, the designated pedestrian crosswalk is some 5-10+ feet prior to where the car would have to stop if it does need to yield while awaiting an opening. Compared to a signaled intersection or a 2/4-way stop, where the pedestrian crossing coincides with a natural traffic stop, this basically means that approximately zero cars actually stop for pedestrians. Some are too busy to notice and others just don't want to have to deal with a stop and so ignore their responsibility. I assume you must live somewhere else, where roundabouts are smaller and play some different role than here.

kieranmaine 3y ago
My experience of roundabouts includes single lanes ones in sleepy residential neighbours all the way up to the infamous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst.... I'd argue that 1 lane roundabouts are far from decorative in residential neighbourhoods and are safer and allow for a better flow of traffic. I'm slightly confused by your description, but it sounds like traffic lights for the pedestrian crossings would be a better option (which is often the case with the bigger roundabouts in the UK). Are the roundabouts you referring to like this one https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfxzDWTx4a7WPasUA https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfxzDWTx4a7WPasUA or smaller?

JohnFen 3y ago

> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. Excepting for single-lane roundabouts, I find they require a much higher cognitive load for me.

InSteady 3y ago

At least if we are talking about the US, it is a fact that many drivers struggle and tunnel vision. Probably because they are so uncommon. It's great that you don't. Drivers that turn into drooling idiots may be the exception rather than the rule, but it happens frequently enough at the traffic circle in my neighborhood that I've learned to treat it with more caution than any other crossing in the entire city.

toast0 3y ago

> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. I only have to look for pedestrians crossing in front of me and cars coming from the left. When coming off the roundabout I only have to check for pedestrians crossing the exit I want to take. I find I sometimes miss pedestrians waiting to cross from the right, because I must look left to merge with oncoming traffic and it's hard to look hard left and to the right at the same time. At a signalized intersection, if all parties follow the signals, there's often no situation where I'm supposed to be looking in both directions for conflicts. If I travel straight through the intersection on a green light, there should be no conflict with pedestrians (although one must always be alert). There may be a stopped or slow vehicle in front if the exit is congested. If an unprotected left turn is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict while I traverse the first half of the intersection, and if right on red is allowed, I must be aware of that potential conflict as I traverse the second half of the intersection. It's of course useful to be aware of potential for other parties to violate their signals, but look mostly straight but to the left for the first half and mostly straight but to right for the second half works for turns and red light violators ... and mostly straight is pretty good for pedestrians crossing against the light. For turns, pedestrians are in the same direction you're heading, and often the same direction you're looking. Right on red is an exception, but one typically stops behind the line and looks around for pedestrians before crossing the line and looking for an opportunity to merge in. For safety, pedestrian crossings should be moved away from roundabouts, where drivers will see them better, but then that increases the path length for pedestrians and acceptance is low.

whycome 3y ago

> As a driver merging into a roundabout I find I have far less cognitive load. What I've seen first hand in Ontario/Canada is that there's a huge increase in cognitive load simply because the roundabouts are still fairly new. Most drivers were never taught about them. They've just appeared. And they aren't completely intuitive for many drivers -- so their entry/exit isn't always ideal/safe.