4 ms·

> keep us locked into using Cloud APIs to do our jobs I love that we can use Cloud APIs to do our jobs. That's piles better than negotiating with (and waiting

> keep us locked into using Cloud APIs to do our jobs I love that we can use Cloud APIs to do our jobs. That's piles better than negotiating with (and waiting for) an Ops team to provision you hardware or networking that you don't have much visibility into and then relying on them to troubleshoot. I don't mind paying more for that (which you absolutely do on a per-unit of compute, network, or storage).

axelthegerman 3y ago
There is still a massive difference between PaaS and IaaS. I don't think anyone wants to rely on a human to unload a rack from the car, walk into a data center and install it. Doesn't mean that Lambda and hosted kubernetes should be our only alternatives.
jdoss 3y ago
Don't get me wrong, I love using them too. They are great for getting something setup quickly when you are getting started. I use some cloud services that support my single datacenter rack I have today. For my expensive workloads, I run them off three beefy bare metal servers in my rack. I'd argue you have less visibility on what is going on at a cloud provider than you did in the past with your Ops team. Support tickets without a massive yearly spend at a cloud provider are pain and suffering. Even with over 1 million/year spend at one of my previous companies, support and visibility on underlying issues was a very poor experience.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  From the developer angle? I'm not so sure. It's an N of 1, but I ran the Ops team for an e-commerce company that you're 50/50 likely to have heard of. I'm proud of how skilled and hard-working my e-comm systems/storage/network/DBA/DC-ops team of around 20 was, and the overall very good operational results we delivered. Even with that, AWS's out of the box offering utterly dominates what we could offer as a medium-sized operation. You might have 5 arbitrary points' worth less visibility behind the scenes, but you need 15 fewer points of visibility behind the scenes. (We're also on enterprise support and have an excellent support & solution architecture team attached to our account, but even for my side projects where I have no support plan whatsoever, I have enough visibility into how to make things work.)
xethos 3y ago
> negotiating with (and waiting for) an Ops team > I don't mind paying more for that I mean, it sounds like this is all through work. So regarding your second point about being okay paying more: are you the one cutting the cheques?
ATMLOTTOBEER 3y ago
I still have to wait for infra to provision me an s3 bucket

axelthegerman 3y ago

There is still a massive difference between PaaS and IaaS. I don't think anyone wants to rely on a human to unload a rack from the car, walk into a data center and install it. Doesn't mean that Lambda and hosted kubernetes should be our only alternatives.

jdoss 3y ago

Don't get me wrong, I love using them too. They are great for getting something setup quickly when you are getting started. I use some cloud services that support my single datacenter rack I have today. For my expensive workloads, I run them off three beefy bare metal servers in my rack. I'd argue you have less visibility on what is going on at a cloud provider than you did in the past with your Ops team. Support tickets without a massive yearly spend at a cloud provider are pain and suffering. Even with over 1 million/year spend at one of my previous companies, support and visibility on underlying issues was a very poor experience.

sokoloff 3y ago
From the developer angle? I'm not so sure. It's an N of 1, but I ran the Ops team for an e-commerce company that you're 50/50 likely to have heard of. I'm proud of how skilled and hard-working my e-comm systems/storage/network/DBA/DC-ops team of around 20 was, and the overall very good operational results we delivered. Even with that, AWS's out of the box offering utterly dominates what we could offer as a medium-sized operation. You might have 5 arbitrary points' worth less visibility behind the scenes, but you need 15 fewer points of visibility behind the scenes. (We're also on enterprise support and have an excellent support & solution architecture team attached to our account, but even for my side projects where I have no support plan whatsoever, I have enough visibility into how to make things work.)

xethos 3y ago

> negotiating with (and waiting for) an Ops team > I don't mind paying more for that I mean, it sounds like this is all through work. So regarding your second point about being okay paying more: are you the one cutting the cheques?

ATMLOTTOBEER 3y ago

I still have to wait for infra to provision me an s3 bucket