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Off the top of my head: - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter

by elteto 3y ago

Off the top of my head: - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. - All the lying and broken promises regarding FSD and other shenanigans with Tesla stock (the “taking it private” debacle, the bitcoin pump and dump, etc). - All the COVID conspiracy idiocy and non-sense. I’m sure there’s plenty more I’m forgetting.

avmich 3y ago
Right, but does it all outweight the benefits he brought?..
- Me1000 3y ago
  Your comment is addressed directly by the great-grandparent comment in that 1) It lacks all nuance because your question implies that if a person provides benefits to [whomever] and it's greater than their antics/demons, then you should like them. And that's simply not how the world works. And 2) The comment even said they wouldn't want to live in a world without SpaceX despite his antics. People are complicated and so too are the views individuals hold about other people. It's not a spectrum where people eventually just dismiss extremely concerning things because someone made something cool.
  - avmich 3y ago
    > It's not a spectrum where people eventually just dismiss extremely concerning things because someone made something cool. That's the matter of the question. Elon Musk has some significant achievements which shouldn't be dismissed just because he behaves less than perfect somewhere else.
    - Me1000 3y ago
      I understand you're trying to frame the question like that, but as has been pointed out now TWICE, and I will for a third time, it's a flawed question because you haven't left any room for nuance. OP literally said they want SpaceX to exist and that they don't like Musk. It's a nuanced thought out opinion and your question doesn't allow for that. Specifically because your premise is flawed, that by not liking a man you're somehow dismissing his achievements. That's obviously and clearly not the case here at all.
      - elteto 3y ago
        Thank you, that’s exactly my point. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
      - avmich 3y ago
        > I understand you're trying to frame the question like that You don't seem to understand me at all. elteto listed a few things, which can be agreed with, and yet which aren't enough to explain cryptoegorophy's question "Why people hate him". I'm reminding that there's another side of things - people in this discussion generally quite aware of that, and only some focus on a one-sided picture. You don't need to repeat that the question is flawed - you just have to correctly understand the question. That is, it's a reminder of another side, which is necessary for cryptoegorophy's question. It's true that it's a complex question, but you don't understand me if you think I don't leave the room for nuance. Or, in other words, you can just dislike a man - but to explain why people in general have a correlated opinion, you have to look at the whole perspective.
foobarian 3y ago
> - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. I get a kick out of Elon/Twitter schadenfreude as much as the next person, but I also have to consider that maybe the "growth at all costs" Wall Street mentality has permeated our society and psyches so thoroughly that it triggers a strong kneejerk reaction to anyone going against that grain. Here is a leader who is finally saying, to hell with the investors and the board and kowtowing to the advertisers, I will make the changes I feel are right, and we are rejecting it because it's "mismanagement." Where mismanagement is defined as not playing along with the public market incentives. I'm sure it's a swing too far in the apologist direction, but you gotta wonder...
macintux 3y ago
He lost me at “pedo guy”.
fallingknife 3y ago
- He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, Have seen this claimed many times but nothing to back it - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. Mismanaging a company is hardly unusual, nor a reason to hate someone unless you are a shareholder or employee - All the lying and broken promises regarding FSD and other shenanigans with Tesla stock (the “taking it private” debacle, the bitcoin pump and dump, etc). Tesla shares are up massively, so this is not a reason to hate him, even if you are a shareholder. It is a reason to hate him if you are a short seller, I guess. He has Tweeted about crypto, but there is no evidence he participated in any pump and dump - All the COVID conspiracy idiocy and non-sense. Can you cite anything for this? I assume it is just more of the same media hysteria about him being some kiind of right wing fascist with no actual backing.
kortilla 3y ago
> He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. Why does Starlink work in Ukraine?
- elteto 3y ago
  Because it is a national priority for the US government to support Ukraine, and SpaceX and Tesla both have significant relationships, directly or indirectly, with the US government. Especially SpaceX.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    So it’s not up to Elon but is instead the US gov?
nickik 3y ago
> - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. This one is just baffling. He is literally the most important private person helping Ukraine right now. He like once suggested that total victory maybe wasn't a viable goal and that at some point in time some compromise peace might have t be made. Something lots of political scientists have also predicted would happen.

by elteto 3y ago

avmich 3y ago

Right, but does it all outweight the benefits he brought?..

Me1000 3y ago
Your comment is addressed directly by the great-grandparent comment in that 1) It lacks all nuance because your question implies that if a person provides benefits to [whomever] and it's greater than their antics/demons, then you should like them. And that's simply not how the world works. And 2) The comment even said they wouldn't want to live in a world without SpaceX despite his antics. People are complicated and so too are the views individuals hold about other people. It's not a spectrum where people eventually just dismiss extremely concerning things because someone made something cool.
- avmich 3y ago
  > It's not a spectrum where people eventually just dismiss extremely concerning things because someone made something cool. That's the matter of the question. Elon Musk has some significant achievements which shouldn't be dismissed just because he behaves less than perfect somewhere else.
  - Me1000 3y ago
    I understand you're trying to frame the question like that, but as has been pointed out now TWICE, and I will for a third time, it's a flawed question because you haven't left any room for nuance. OP literally said they want SpaceX to exist and that they don't like Musk. It's a nuanced thought out opinion and your question doesn't allow for that. Specifically because your premise is flawed, that by not liking a man you're somehow dismissing his achievements. That's obviously and clearly not the case here at all.
    - elteto 3y ago
      Thank you, that’s exactly my point. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
    - avmich 3y ago
      > I understand you're trying to frame the question like that You don't seem to understand me at all. elteto listed a few things, which can be agreed with, and yet which aren't enough to explain cryptoegorophy's question "Why people hate him". I'm reminding that there's another side of things - people in this discussion generally quite aware of that, and only some focus on a one-sided picture. You don't need to repeat that the question is flawed - you just have to correctly understand the question. That is, it's a reminder of another side, which is necessary for cryptoegorophy's question. It's true that it's a complex question, but you don't understand me if you think I don't leave the room for nuance. Or, in other words, you can just dislike a man - but to explain why people in general have a correlated opinion, you have to look at the whole perspective.

foobarian 3y ago

> - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. I get a kick out of Elon/Twitter schadenfreude as much as the next person, but I also have to consider that maybe the "growth at all costs" Wall Street mentality has permeated our society and psyches so thoroughly that it triggers a strong kneejerk reaction to anyone going against that grain. Here is a leader who is finally saying, to hell with the investors and the board and kowtowing to the advertisers, I will make the changes I feel are right, and we are rejecting it because it's "mismanagement." Where mismanagement is defined as not playing along with the public market incentives. I'm sure it's a swing too far in the apologist direction, but you gotta wonder...

macintux 3y ago

He lost me at “pedo guy”.

fallingknife 3y ago

- He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, Have seen this claimed many times but nothing to back it - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. Mismanaging a company is hardly unusual, nor a reason to hate someone unless you are a shareholder or employee - All the lying and broken promises regarding FSD and other shenanigans with Tesla stock (the “taking it private” debacle, the bitcoin pump and dump, etc). Tesla shares are up massively, so this is not a reason to hate him, even if you are a shareholder. It is a reason to hate him if you are a short seller, I guess. He has Tweeted about crypto, but there is no evidence he participated in any pump and dump - All the COVID conspiracy idiocy and non-sense. Can you cite anything for this? I assume it is just more of the same media hysteria about him being some kiind of right wing fascist with no actual backing.

kortilla 3y ago

> He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. Why does Starlink work in Ukraine?

elteto 3y ago
Because it is a national priority for the US government to support Ukraine, and SpaceX and Tesla both have significant relationships, directly or indirectly, with the US government. Especially SpaceX.
- kortilla 3y ago
  So it’s not up to Elon but is instead the US gov?

nickik 3y ago

> - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. This one is just baffling. He is literally the most important private person helping Ukraine right now. He like once suggested that total victory maybe wasn't a viable goal and that at some point in time some compromise peace might have t be made. Something lots of political scientists have also predicted would happen.