8 ms·

Based on every mega-scale consumer tech company, the best way to scale customer service is to make it as useless and frustrating as possible.

by ssharp 3y ago

mattmaroon 3y ago
Apple would be a notable exception. As would Amazon. I think you’re referring specifically to Google and Facebook, and you’re right. I think the big difference is the amount of profit per customer. Google and Facebook make a small amount from a large number of people so it makes sense that they could not profitably scale customer support. In the instances where they make a large amount of money off of a small number of people, mainly ad sales, their support is much better.
- avgDev 3y ago
  I at least don't expect anything from FB. I must also say Uber's CS is absolute garbage. I just cannot believe how bad they are. I have been unable to use uber for weeks and have been reaching out to them non-stop every few days. It is like speaking to a brick wall.
  - arcanemachiner 3y ago
    Have you tried social media? Companies can be strangely responsive on those channels. Try reaching out to their Facebook or Twitter/X profiles.
    - avgDev 3y ago
      I don't use X but might try facebook.
- mfitton 3y ago
  I've had consistently bad experiences with Apple support.
- eichin 3y ago
  Even amazon seems to do a lot to err on the side of "automatically make the customer happy" rather than "actually have someone look into the problem" (I did a recent round of "order a three-pack, get a singleton labelled as a three pack, return for replacement, the replacement was also a singleton, return for refund" - they were prompt about the replacement, and prompt about the refund, very straightforward - but I actually wanted 6 of the items (and got someone else to not even order them to avoid dealing with this.) This is a pretty straightforward inventory problem, and I'm not convinced amazon even got any "signal" about it from the interaction. (And after all, the alternate items I ordered... were still from amazon, so they don't have a problem either, really...)
  - b112 3y ago
    I had this same issue a few time too. Ordered five 3-packs. Receive one three pack, and 4 singles. I am convinced a robot just snags "one of each" from a bin, and if some packs are broken apart and separate... then they meet that logic.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > Even amazon seems to do a lot to err on the side of "automatically make the customer happy" I can't find the article now, but I read a piece about the volume of returns and what happens to them ("reverse logistics"). Basically, companies find it's more profitable to always allow returns and keep the customers happy -- and often, they'll let the customer keep the "returned" product because even if the product works 100%, the cost to ship and verify is below what they'll make reselling it. I thought this was an interesting contrast to LL Bean, who a few years back decided to end their lifetime guarantee, and naturally upset some lifetime customers.
- GiorgioG 3y ago
  Apple and Amazon aren't event remotely in the same league. Amazon chat agents use canned responses (probably due to being required to handle multiple customers at one time.) I've had one tech support/customer service interaction by phone with Apple and it was great - I needed my out of warranty MBP battery replaced. The agent was kind, knowledgeable, focused and took her time working with me to diagnose/confirm the issue and setup the return (they sent me a box & label to send the MBP in for service.) I had my MBP back within 5 business days from the day they picked it up. Apple is expensive, but they take phone support seriously.
  - michalf6 3y ago
    And then there are companies like Dell and Lenovo which dispatch a serviceman to your address on next day and fix or replace the device on the spot.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      Isn’t that normally an add on service that you purchase in addition to the thing you’re buying?
      - hackideiomat 3y ago
        In my experience, they do not even ask for warranty or support service or what not. A Lenovo person will come and help. Period.
    - simonjgreen 3y ago
      Dell ProSupport for IT is the absolute benchmark
  - epolanski 3y ago
    My ipod 3rd gen broke in 2005. Mailed support, I had a new one mailed few days later. They didn't even bother checking whether it was broke, or even retired it, they just sent me a new one. I don't like Apple too much and try to avoid their products, but can't lie never had such a good customer experience.
- rockooooo 3y ago
  Apple is only good compared to the total garbage fire of MS/Google, and Amazon's support has been horrible for years now. If they don't have an automated answer to your problem you're SOL.I had them ship me the wrong item with the correct item's SKU taped on it and they argued with me for quite awhile before just refunding me.
  - mattmaroon 3y ago
    MSFT is pretty good with their hardware support.
    - rockooooo 3y ago
      I believe that for the surface line, but I mainly deal with the O365 folks.
  - JCharante 3y ago
    > If they don't have an automated answer to your problem you're SOL No? I've had issues with an external monitor and had an applecare specialist debug a bunch of settings and then schedule a call with me for the next day after they heard back from the escalation team. Thankfully I bought a different cable which fixed my issue, but they are very nice for support from my experience.
- ssharp 3y ago
  I can't think of any instances where I've needed Google or Facebook support. I pay Google money for premium services, so I'd hope they'd be better, but I've read plenty of evidence to contrary. I was thinking more specifically of the Ubers, Lyfts, DoorDashes, Instacarts of the world. They are providing a consumer service, don't really control the end-to-end experience that well, and when things go wrong they are very difficult to work with on a reasonable resolution.
taneq 3y ago
I'm pretty sure that's literally what they do. The metric for customer service at scale is "engagement" where bigger numbers are worse, so they hellban you to a network of automated answering services, online documentation and chatbots which all redirect you to each other while avoiding any question that doesn't have a quick, easy, do-it-yourself solution.
rrr_oh_man 3y ago
You're not their customer. You're their product.
- ssharp 3y ago
  If I'm ordering groceries on Instacart, how am I not their customer? Am I only the customer of the grocery store and delivery driver?
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    To be frank, I’ve never used Instacart, so anything would be (a hopefully educated) guess. But it might be some version of Michael Seibels's classic "Who is your customer?" (https://youtu.be/C27RVio2rOs?t=10m11s https://youtu.be/C27RVio2rOs?t=10m11s)

Based on every mega-scale consumer tech company, the best way to scale customer service is to make it as useless and frustrating as possible.

by ssharp 3y ago

Based on every mega-scale consumer tech company, the best way to scale customer service is to make it as useless and frustrating as possible.

mattmaroon 3y ago

Apple would be a notable exception. As would Amazon. I think you’re referring specifically to Google and Facebook, and you’re right. I think the big difference is the amount of profit per customer. Google and Facebook make a small amount from a large number of people so it makes sense that they could not profitably scale customer support. In the instances where they make a large amount of money off of a small number of people, mainly ad sales, their support is much better.

avgDev 3y ago
I at least don't expect anything from FB. I must also say Uber's CS is absolute garbage. I just cannot believe how bad they are. I have been unable to use uber for weeks and have been reaching out to them non-stop every few days. It is like speaking to a brick wall.
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  Have you tried social media? Companies can be strangely responsive on those channels. Try reaching out to their Facebook or Twitter/X profiles.
  - avgDev 3y ago
    I don't use X but might try facebook.
mfitton 3y ago
I've had consistently bad experiences with Apple support.
eichin 3y ago
Even amazon seems to do a lot to err on the side of "automatically make the customer happy" rather than "actually have someone look into the problem" (I did a recent round of "order a three-pack, get a singleton labelled as a three pack, return for replacement, the replacement was also a singleton, return for refund" - they were prompt about the replacement, and prompt about the refund, very straightforward - but I actually wanted 6 of the items (and got someone else to not even order them to avoid dealing with this.) This is a pretty straightforward inventory problem, and I'm not convinced amazon even got any "signal" about it from the interaction. (And after all, the alternate items I ordered... were still from amazon, so they don't have a problem either, really...)
- b112 3y ago
  I had this same issue a few time too. Ordered five 3-packs. Receive one three pack, and 4 singles. I am convinced a robot just snags "one of each" from a bin, and if some packs are broken apart and separate... then they meet that logic.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > Even amazon seems to do a lot to err on the side of "automatically make the customer happy" I can't find the article now, but I read a piece about the volume of returns and what happens to them ("reverse logistics"). Basically, companies find it's more profitable to always allow returns and keep the customers happy -- and often, they'll let the customer keep the "returned" product because even if the product works 100%, the cost to ship and verify is below what they'll make reselling it. I thought this was an interesting contrast to LL Bean, who a few years back decided to end their lifetime guarantee, and naturally upset some lifetime customers.
GiorgioG 3y ago
Apple and Amazon aren't event remotely in the same league. Amazon chat agents use canned responses (probably due to being required to handle multiple customers at one time.) I've had one tech support/customer service interaction by phone with Apple and it was great - I needed my out of warranty MBP battery replaced. The agent was kind, knowledgeable, focused and took her time working with me to diagnose/confirm the issue and setup the return (they sent me a box & label to send the MBP in for service.) I had my MBP back within 5 business days from the day they picked it up. Apple is expensive, but they take phone support seriously.
- michalf6 3y ago
  And then there are companies like Dell and Lenovo which dispatch a serviceman to your address on next day and fix or replace the device on the spot.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Isn’t that normally an add on service that you purchase in addition to the thing you’re buying?
    - hackideiomat 3y ago
      In my experience, they do not even ask for warranty or support service or what not. A Lenovo person will come and help. Period.
  - simonjgreen 3y ago
    Dell ProSupport for IT is the absolute benchmark
- epolanski 3y ago
  My ipod 3rd gen broke in 2005. Mailed support, I had a new one mailed few days later. They didn't even bother checking whether it was broke, or even retired it, they just sent me a new one. I don't like Apple too much and try to avoid their products, but can't lie never had such a good customer experience.
rockooooo 3y ago
Apple is only good compared to the total garbage fire of MS/Google, and Amazon's support has been horrible for years now. If they don't have an automated answer to your problem you're SOL.I had them ship me the wrong item with the correct item's SKU taped on it and they argued with me for quite awhile before just refunding me.
- mattmaroon 3y ago
  MSFT is pretty good with their hardware support.
  - rockooooo 3y ago
    I believe that for the surface line, but I mainly deal with the O365 folks.
- JCharante 3y ago
  > If they don't have an automated answer to your problem you're SOL No? I've had issues with an external monitor and had an applecare specialist debug a bunch of settings and then schedule a call with me for the next day after they heard back from the escalation team. Thankfully I bought a different cable which fixed my issue, but they are very nice for support from my experience.
ssharp 3y ago
I can't think of any instances where I've needed Google or Facebook support. I pay Google money for premium services, so I'd hope they'd be better, but I've read plenty of evidence to contrary. I was thinking more specifically of the Ubers, Lyfts, DoorDashes, Instacarts of the world. They are providing a consumer service, don't really control the end-to-end experience that well, and when things go wrong they are very difficult to work with on a reasonable resolution.

taneq 3y ago

I'm pretty sure that's literally what they do. The metric for customer service at scale is "engagement" where bigger numbers are worse, so they hellban you to a network of automated answering services, online documentation and chatbots which all redirect you to each other while avoiding any question that doesn't have a quick, easy, do-it-yourself solution.

rrr_oh_man 3y ago

You're not their customer. You're their product.

ssharp 3y ago
If I'm ordering groceries on Instacart, how am I not their customer? Am I only the customer of the grocery store and delivery driver?
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  To be frank, I’ve never used Instacart, so anything would be (a hopefully educated) guess. But it might be some version of Michael Seibels's classic "Who is your customer?" (https://youtu.be/C27RVio2rOs?t=10m11s https://youtu.be/C27RVio2rOs?t=10m11s)