4 ms·

Those who make income pay 30+% in taxes. Those who make capital gains do not. Of course, those who make capital gains don't need a social safety net, but disc

Those who make income pay 30+% in taxes. Those who make capital gains do not. Of course, those who make capital gains don't need a social safety net, but discussions about taxes need to include both tax tracks because they behave so very differently.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
If your effective income tax rate is 30%+ in the US, you either have a very high income, easily top decile, or you live/work in Oregon (but that’s only a few million people).
- dmoy 3y ago
  $90k in NYC is >30% effective after federal, state, city, and FICA. But yea it's probably top 10%. If you include medical costs outside of FICA, which many other Western countries get for near free after taxes, then it looks... quite different.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I guess certain cities like NYC/Philadelphia might also push effective income tax to over 30% for lower incomes, but for the purposes of comparing income tax rates and capital gains tax rates in the US, it does not make sense to include the social security component of FICA or medical costs. Edit: I am barely getting 30% in NYC, even including FICA (zip code 10118) https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes $90k as single is $27,171, or 30.19%. $90k as married filer shows $20,758, which is 23.06% (incl FICA). But, again, I would not include all of the social security portion of FICA (6.2%), since presumably you will be getting some of that back.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- zdw 3y ago
  Sales tax + local/state/federal taxes + social security/medicare can be above 30% even for folks not in the highest brackets.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Sales taxes and social security taxes cannot be lumped in with income taxes, for the purposes of comparing income tax rates and capital gains tax rates.
    - pierat 3y ago
      I'm the great-great-great-grandparent, and I didn't specify the *type* of taxes. The state took it from me, either directly before I saw it, at a point of sale, as some convenience fee (restaurants, bars, etc), liquor fees to punish my drinking, or countless other state-sanctioned money transfer. I like a return on my investment, and the same goes for the government I live in. And although this sounds like some libertarian style drivel, I'm not complaining about the taxes themselves, but what I get in return for what I pay for. And in this country (USA), it aint much. The most I've seen the govt do, after kilodollars paid in, was a whole $1200 singular check during covid. Everything else I "get", is fee'd, fine'd, and taxed to death. I would prefer a strong safety net for everyone. Universal healthcare. Free K-12 school lunches. Free university classes/degrees. Yeah, I look at the WHOLE package of taxes, what I pay in, and what I get. Well, there's a reason why I'm talking with my partner about leaving the country, and even possibly renouncing. But hell, even US citizenship is a -$3500 hole in my pocket.
pierat 3y ago
True, but the post is about "workers" (who are being abused by management/ownership), who are getting "income". This isn't about the managerial or owner class. Sure, there's edge cases where founders and early startup workers get paid income and capital (stocks, etc) both, but that's not the scope of the article.
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  Right, but I detected a whiff of a complaint that taxes were high, so I wanted to emphasize that a huge chunk of the wealth out there is taxed at much lower rates. These are edge cases if you count by number of people, but not if you count by number of dollars. Rich people live in a different world.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

If your effective income tax rate is 30%+ in the US, you either have a very high income, easily top decile, or you live/work in Oregon (but that’s only a few million people).

dmoy 3y ago
$90k in NYC is >30% effective after federal, state, city, and FICA. But yea it's probably top 10%. If you include medical costs outside of FICA, which many other Western countries get for near free after taxes, then it looks... quite different.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I guess certain cities like NYC/Philadelphia might also push effective income tax to over 30% for lower incomes, but for the purposes of comparing income tax rates and capital gains tax rates in the US, it does not make sense to include the social security component of FICA or medical costs. Edit: I am barely getting 30% in NYC, even including FICA (zip code 10118) https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes $90k as single is $27,171, or 30.19%. $90k as married filer shows $20,758, which is 23.06% (incl FICA). But, again, I would not include all of the social security portion of FICA (6.2%), since presumably you will be getting some of that back.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
zdw 3y ago
Sales tax + local/state/federal taxes + social security/medicare can be above 30% even for folks not in the highest brackets.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Sales taxes and social security taxes cannot be lumped in with income taxes, for the purposes of comparing income tax rates and capital gains tax rates.
  - pierat 3y ago
    I'm the great-great-great-grandparent, and I didn't specify the *type* of taxes. The state took it from me, either directly before I saw it, at a point of sale, as some convenience fee (restaurants, bars, etc), liquor fees to punish my drinking, or countless other state-sanctioned money transfer. I like a return on my investment, and the same goes for the government I live in. And although this sounds like some libertarian style drivel, I'm not complaining about the taxes themselves, but what I get in return for what I pay for. And in this country (USA), it aint much. The most I've seen the govt do, after kilodollars paid in, was a whole $1200 singular check during covid. Everything else I "get", is fee'd, fine'd, and taxed to death. I would prefer a strong safety net for everyone. Universal healthcare. Free K-12 school lunches. Free university classes/degrees. Yeah, I look at the WHOLE package of taxes, what I pay in, and what I get. Well, there's a reason why I'm talking with my partner about leaving the country, and even possibly renouncing. But hell, even US citizenship is a -$3500 hole in my pocket.

pierat 3y ago

True, but the post is about "workers" (who are being abused by management/ownership), who are getting "income". This isn't about the managerial or owner class. Sure, there's edge cases where founders and early startup workers get paid income and capital (stocks, etc) both, but that's not the scope of the article.

jjoonathan 3y ago
Right, but I detected a whiff of a complaint that taxes were high, so I wanted to emphasize that a huge chunk of the wealth out there is taxed at much lower rates. These are edge cases if you count by number of people, but not if you count by number of dollars. Rich people live in a different world.