5 ms·

$6 million in personal wealth is middle class? Woof!

sowbug 3y ago
$6 million x 4% safe withdrawal rate = $240,000 a year. It's enough for comfort, but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-largest-110047320.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-l...
- WJW 3y ago
  You guys. Median income in the USA is about 76k per year (according to https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). 230k will quite literally put you in the top 10% of income earners in the USA, and probably much higher elsewhere.
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    Sure and 76K will put you in the top 1% in sub-Saharan Africa. I think you are missing the point. In most of the US, there simply aren't enough opportunities to make 6M. To make 6M in the first place, you have to be in a high CoL place like SFBA or NYC. Or at least that was the case until very recently. And once you put roots down in a high CoL place and have a total wealth of 6M, it is much harder to uproot and move somewhere else. Barring maybe a few who came from low CoL areas and still have roots and connections there.
    - ska 3y ago
      I don't think they are missing the point, really - the average income in NYC is still "only" about 100k. Choosing to live in more expensive parts of the city and for 2.5 times that may open up lots of opportunities, and that's all good. You just are just butting up against the realm where calling yourself middle class becomes silly. People have a weird psychological affinity to self-identifying this way, but "I know a bunch of people who make 10x what I make", isn't really a good argument for it. Having a few million in assets definitely puts you out of the running, which is where you are likely to end up if you have this sort of salary for a while and aren't stupid with it.
  - thrway63245 3y ago
    [dead]
- ska 3y ago
  > but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country. Middle class is explicitly not about passive income. If you are living off "safe withdrawal rate", you are wealthy, almost tautologically. In extreme versions (e.g. some of the FIRE folks) you may be living some version of a "middle class lifestyle", but that's not the same thing. It fundamentally changes the options and opportunities you have.
- Solvency 3y ago
  Wait what? I never said anything about retiring on 6 million. Anyone who can make 6 million in the first place could most certainly make $240,000 a year in a lower stress job for the rest of their life while sitting on an incredible fortune that continues to generate wealth over time at 5% interest. This person has effectively "won" at life and is far outside of middle class.
phone8675309 3y ago
As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class. If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.
- encoderer 3y ago
  That is not the traditional definition of middle class in the United States. The traditional American dream was a middle class life: stable career, single income family, house in the suburbs and a nice pension check when you retire. Fair to point out that that is a bygone era and maybe you do need $6 mill now, but maybe we need a different name than “middle class” to describe it.
  - phone8675309 3y ago
    That is the original meaning of the term middle class - a class that does not need to sell its labor to a boss to survive but who is also not part of the idle rich crowd.
    - encoderer 3y ago
      In pre-revolution France, yes. But not in the United States.
      - phone8675309 3y ago
        We're rapidly approaching the pre-revolution France when it comes to income inequality and political division.
        encoderer 3y ago
        Regretfully I would have to agree.
- fourseventy 3y ago
  [flagged]
migf 3y ago
If you don't have to work, you aren't middle class. I think the 6million is aspirational.

$6 million x 4% safe withdrawal rate = $240,000 a year. It's enough for comfort, but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-largest-110047320.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-l...

WJW 3y ago
You guys. Median income in the USA is about 76k per year (according to https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). 230k will quite literally put you in the top 10% of income earners in the USA, and probably much higher elsewhere.
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  Sure and 76K will put you in the top 1% in sub-Saharan Africa. I think you are missing the point. In most of the US, there simply aren't enough opportunities to make 6M. To make 6M in the first place, you have to be in a high CoL place like SFBA or NYC. Or at least that was the case until very recently. And once you put roots down in a high CoL place and have a total wealth of 6M, it is much harder to uproot and move somewhere else. Barring maybe a few who came from low CoL areas and still have roots and connections there.
  - ska 3y ago
    I don't think they are missing the point, really - the average income in NYC is still "only" about 100k. Choosing to live in more expensive parts of the city and for 2.5 times that may open up lots of opportunities, and that's all good. You just are just butting up against the realm where calling yourself middle class becomes silly. People have a weird psychological affinity to self-identifying this way, but "I know a bunch of people who make 10x what I make", isn't really a good argument for it. Having a few million in assets definitely puts you out of the running, which is where you are likely to end up if you have this sort of salary for a while and aren't stupid with it.
- thrway63245 3y ago
  [dead]
ska 3y ago
> but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country. Middle class is explicitly not about passive income. If you are living off "safe withdrawal rate", you are wealthy, almost tautologically. In extreme versions (e.g. some of the FIRE folks) you may be living some version of a "middle class lifestyle", but that's not the same thing. It fundamentally changes the options and opportunities you have.
Solvency 3y ago
Wait what? I never said anything about retiring on 6 million. Anyone who can make 6 million in the first place could most certainly make $240,000 a year in a lower stress job for the rest of their life while sitting on an incredible fortune that continues to generate wealth over time at 5% interest. This person has effectively "won" at life and is far outside of middle class.

phone8675309 3y ago

As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class. If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.

encoderer 3y ago
That is not the traditional definition of middle class in the United States. The traditional American dream was a middle class life: stable career, single income family, house in the suburbs and a nice pension check when you retire. Fair to point out that that is a bygone era and maybe you do need $6 mill now, but maybe we need a different name than “middle class” to describe it.
- phone8675309 3y ago
  That is the original meaning of the term middle class - a class that does not need to sell its labor to a boss to survive but who is also not part of the idle rich crowd.
  - encoderer 3y ago
    In pre-revolution France, yes. But not in the United States.
    - phone8675309 3y ago
      We're rapidly approaching the pre-revolution France when it comes to income inequality and political division.
      - encoderer 3y ago
        Regretfully I would have to agree.
fourseventy 3y ago
[flagged]

migf 3y ago

If you don't have to work, you aren't middle class. I think the 6million is aspirational.