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Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Accept a counter. Never. Why? If they didn't recognize your value before and they only recognize it when you threaten to d

Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Accept a counter. Never. Why? If they didn't recognize your value before and they only recognize it when you threaten to depart, they aren't respecting you any more w/the counter; they're just using that to stave off the impending issues that arise and will likely take any future opportunity to recoup that 'loss'. I actively advocate, in advance, for my team. They have clear expectations on what the next step in their career w/us is and have a general idea of what to expect salary wise when they reach it. If they're looking, it means that I have failed them in my #1 core competency and priority as a leader to ensure they are getting what they need out of their day to day and I would prefer they openly communicate with me in advance of their feeling a need to look. If you are not getting this out of your current leadership, find a new job where your leader will be someone will be that advocate for you. Very often, people are a company's most valuable asset and they should work hard to retain that asset without rigamarole.

pdimitar 3y ago
I wish a had a manager like you, even just once in my life. sighs deeply Keep up the good fight. I hope your people appreciate you.
- garciasn 3y ago
  They claim to like me and, being that several of them have worked with me at multiple companies over a 15 year span and at least one other has requested I take them with me in the future, I would probably say they appreciate my style. That said, to respond to another commenter, policy can certainly cause friction with this sort of methodology and I have definitely run into it in the past. But, leaders exist to navigate company politics so their direct reports have more time to deal with the work they do; any friction encountered that is insurmountable points to deeper organizational issues and can (and in my case does) necessitate my moving somewhere that allows me the autonomy to build strong teams and develop high performing teams.
startupsfail 3y ago
It doesn’t harm to negotiate. Yes, there was clearly a failure, but it could have been a middle management or HR level fail. Or a poor policy.
somsak2 3y ago
I think the first thing I struggle with in this worldview is that companies don't think about roles as "how much value" they bring to the business. If they did, most ICs would be paid far more highly. But since employees negotiate as individuals, and companies negotiate as huge orgs (or cartels of orgs a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...), an employer is able to pay you just enough so that you won't leave. Without a competing offer, how can they be sure that you'll actually leave? Showing them that you can forces their hand. But you're still extremely unlikely to be receiving anywhere close to your supposed "value" to the business, and unfortunately mere managers can't really change such a fundamental misalignment.

pdimitar 3y ago

I wish a had a manager like you, even just once in my life. sighs deeply Keep up the good fight. I hope your people appreciate you.

garciasn 3y ago
They claim to like me and, being that several of them have worked with me at multiple companies over a 15 year span and at least one other has requested I take them with me in the future, I would probably say they appreciate my style. That said, to respond to another commenter, policy can certainly cause friction with this sort of methodology and I have definitely run into it in the past. But, leaders exist to navigate company politics so their direct reports have more time to deal with the work they do; any friction encountered that is insurmountable points to deeper organizational issues and can (and in my case does) necessitate my moving somewhere that allows me the autonomy to build strong teams and develop high performing teams.

startupsfail 3y ago

It doesn’t harm to negotiate. Yes, there was clearly a failure, but it could have been a middle management or HR level fail. Or a poor policy.

somsak2 3y ago

I think the first thing I struggle with in this worldview is that companies don't think about roles as "how much value" they bring to the business. If they did, most ICs would be paid far more highly. But since employees negotiate as individuals, and companies negotiate as huge orgs (or cartels of orgs a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...), an employer is able to pay you just enough so that you won't leave. Without a competing offer, how can they be sure that you'll actually leave? Showing them that you can forces their hand. But you're still extremely unlikely to be receiving anywhere close to your supposed "value" to the business, and unfortunately mere managers can't really change such a fundamental misalignment.