3 ms·

Complexity has to exist somewhere, either in the engineer's hands, or swept under the rug for the framework to perform its magic on (really thinking about the R

Complexity has to exist somewhere, either in the engineer's hands, or swept under the rug for the framework to perform its magic on (really thinking about the Rails ecosystem here). When things go wrong, it's nicer, in my opinion, to have more control, especially in this fast paced clients-want-it-now environment.

bob1029 3y ago
In my experience, the complexity with most frontend development is accidental by way of splitting state between client & server. If you manage to consolidate nearly all state to the server, complexity reduces by an entire dimension. There is nothing to synchronize anymore. You don't need these universes of delta-detection tools, frameworks, protocols, etc. In most of our modern SSR apps, the only state the client needs to hold onto is a session token. If we find the client has a wrong session token, correcting this is quite simple. Everything else happens on the server. Certainly there are holes with SSR (latency), but we haven't run into a real-world scenario where this actually matters enough to introduce entire new universes of hell into our lives.
worthless-trash 3y ago
> Complexity has to exist somewhere, What is the complexity you are talking about here, is this the human (programmers) understanding of the system or the design of a complex system itself ?
toddmorey 3y ago
Yes. Definitely been bit here with ORMs and custom query languages.
pier25 3y ago
> especially in this fast paced clients-want-it-now environment But wouldn't a solution that makes you more productive allow you to deliver faster? That's what Livewire/Hotwire/etc are trying to achieve. Make developers more productive. When going full on SPA there's so much complexity you need to solve. Crossing the client/server barrier with APIs, managing state in the client, etc.

3 ms·

Complexity has to exist somewhere, either in the engineer's hands, or swept under the rug for the framework to perform its magic on (really thinking about the R

by metadaemon 3y ago

bob1029 3y ago
In my experience, the complexity with most frontend development is accidental by way of splitting state between client & server. If you manage to consolidate nearly all state to the server, complexity reduces by an entire dimension. There is nothing to synchronize anymore. You don't need these universes of delta-detection tools, frameworks, protocols, etc. In most of our modern SSR apps, the only state the client needs to hold onto is a session token. If we find the client has a wrong session token, correcting this is quite simple. Everything else happens on the server. Certainly there are holes with SSR (latency), but we haven't run into a real-world scenario where this actually matters enough to introduce entire new universes of hell into our lives.
worthless-trash 3y ago
> Complexity has to exist somewhere, What is the complexity you are talking about here, is this the human (programmers) understanding of the system or the design of a complex system itself ?
toddmorey 3y ago
Yes. Definitely been bit here with ORMs and custom query languages.
pier25 3y ago
> especially in this fast paced clients-want-it-now environment But wouldn't a solution that makes you more productive allow you to deliver faster? That's what Livewire/Hotwire/etc are trying to achieve. Make developers more productive. When going full on SPA there's so much complexity you need to solve. Crossing the client/server barrier with APIs, managing state in the client, etc.