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Artists are still able to produce art with or without photoshop. Without their LLMs and the stolen art within, the best an AI "artist" can do is to scrawl "Trac

Artists are still able to produce art with or without photoshop. Without their LLMs and the stolen art within, the best an AI "artist" can do is to scrawl "Tracer Overwatch big boobs not ugly trending on artstation" into a page.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
> Artists are still able to produce art with or without photoshop And that's was some actual AI artists do too. Its massively turbocharging stuff thats they can do in an illustrator or photo editor, but just takes forever. The tooling around diffusion is a deep rabbit hole, and requires some skill to use. There's an important distinction between that kind of artist and the "AI users" flooding the internet. They are more akin to dank meme makers using Photoshop.
- numpad0 3y ago
  Not sure if that's happening at scale. AI-photobashing were and are attempted, but it seems AI always tries to undo changes so to bring deviations down to optically correct median form(as AI understands it), including all artist intentions. This applies to overall composition of the art as well. Being forced into an "average" grade sounds okay, but rather, I think, what is happening is that a new baseline for minimum meaningful art was created, and at the same time, new definition for value of art is being established as errors from that baseline. And I'm not sure those are good things.
jdietrich 3y ago
AlphaGo was trained on millions of professional Go matches. AlphaGo Zero trained purely by playing itself, with no exposure whatsoever to human play; it ended up being easier to train and much stronger. I'm not saying that we will soon have a state-of-the-art image generation model that relies on self training, supervised learning or adversarial learning rather than a scraped data set, but I think it's a highly likely outcome within the next few years. Anyone making the argument that AI art is just copying might be in for a rude awakening. If that comes to pass, will you eagerly embrace AI art?
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Thats not really equivalent, as image diffusion models are training on "real world" styles and topics, not a constrained game. Additionally, AlphaGo outputs are quantifiably "flawless," whereas GenAI models have all sorts of artifacts and distortion in their output that can't possibly be reliably filtered, even with an army of humans to do it. My experience with ESRGAN is that it really does not like to train on its own output. It amplifies all sorts of wierd artifacts you can barely see I'd you go back and squint at the finetuning dataset. And there was a paper suggesting newer generative models are similar.
- Devasta 3y ago
  Of course I won't. Art at some level is meant to be communication between the artist and the observer/reader/listener. What communication is there in AI art besides "The algorithm did it"?
  - eru 3y ago
    Not all 'art' does this kind of communication. Sometimes you just need some textures to make your game's level look pretty. Whether you call that art or not is in the eye of the beholder. Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_arts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_arts
- numpad0 3y ago
  This comment reminded me that AlphaGo exists. …

brucethemoose2 3y ago

> Artists are still able to produce art with or without photoshop And that's was some actual AI artists do too. Its massively turbocharging stuff thats they can do in an illustrator or photo editor, but just takes forever. The tooling around diffusion is a deep rabbit hole, and requires some skill to use. There's an important distinction between that kind of artist and the "AI users" flooding the internet. They are more akin to dank meme makers using Photoshop.

numpad0 3y ago
Not sure if that's happening at scale. AI-photobashing were and are attempted, but it seems AI always tries to undo changes so to bring deviations down to optically correct median form(as AI understands it), including all artist intentions. This applies to overall composition of the art as well. Being forced into an "average" grade sounds okay, but rather, I think, what is happening is that a new baseline for minimum meaningful art was created, and at the same time, new definition for value of art is being established as errors from that baseline. And I'm not sure those are good things.

jdietrich 3y ago

AlphaGo was trained on millions of professional Go matches. AlphaGo Zero trained purely by playing itself, with no exposure whatsoever to human play; it ended up being easier to train and much stronger. I'm not saying that we will soon have a state-of-the-art image generation model that relies on self training, supervised learning or adversarial learning rather than a scraped data set, but I think it's a highly likely outcome within the next few years. Anyone making the argument that AI art is just copying might be in for a rude awakening. If that comes to pass, will you eagerly embrace AI art?

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Thats not really equivalent, as image diffusion models are training on "real world" styles and topics, not a constrained game. Additionally, AlphaGo outputs are quantifiably "flawless," whereas GenAI models have all sorts of artifacts and distortion in their output that can't possibly be reliably filtered, even with an army of humans to do it. My experience with ESRGAN is that it really does not like to train on its own output. It amplifies all sorts of wierd artifacts you can barely see I'd you go back and squint at the finetuning dataset. And there was a paper suggesting newer generative models are similar.
Devasta 3y ago
Of course I won't. Art at some level is meant to be communication between the artist and the observer/reader/listener. What communication is there in AI art besides "The algorithm did it"?
- eru 3y ago
  Not all 'art' does this kind of communication. Sometimes you just need some textures to make your game's level look pretty. Whether you call that art or not is in the eye of the beholder. Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_arts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_arts
numpad0 3y ago
This comment reminded me that AlphaGo exists. …