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No they won't. Because React is a view library, not a framework. Yes, web components might outlive React. But no, they will not outlive my JavaScript framewo

No they won't. Because React is a view library, not a framework. Yes, web components might outlive React. But no, they will not outlive my JavaScript framework, because web components don't replace routing, data layer, testing, authz, server-side rendering, rehydration and whatever else frameworks like Angular/Ember/Next.js/etc do these days. Rendering a view is a small part of what front-end frameworks do.

spankalee 3y ago
React is a framework because it calls into the the components to make them go, not the other way around - the Holywood Principle. This shows up with restrictions like that you can't mix and match components with different versions of React in the same tree.
- HatchedLake721 3y ago
  Even React homepage calls itself a library, and mentions Next.js/Remix/Gatsby/Expo as React frameworks you can use.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    Doesn’t change that framework has a definition that react meets. The renderer runs your code, that’s a framework
    - a_wild_dandan 3y ago
      Your definition is very...unintuitive to me. Control inversion (the Hollywood Principle) isn't relevant -- many systems which use it aren't remotely frameworks. Most people view libraries as tools which target narrowly scoped sub-problems of a given solution/application. In React's case, it's a view library -- the V in MVC, for instance. Frameworks are generally considered holistic set of tools which tightly integrate together to form a structured & opinionated approach to the larger solution, e.g the entire MVC approach. React is widely considered a library. React doesn't tell you how to structure your project, manage its backend communication, handle application state, routing, etc. React is just...not a framework. For any standard notion of what engineers mean when using the term. If you use IoC to distinguish libs/frameworks, you're going to confuse the hell outta people. There are certainly technologies which straddle the line between these terms, but React is not one of them.
      - Tade0 3y ago
        > React doesn't tell you how to structure your project, manage its backend communication, handle application state, routing, etc. React is just...not a framework. Technically it doesn't, but the conventions that grew around it and the availability of learning material effectively produced same default choices, making it a framework via convention. And I see it as a good thing, because having several competing router implementations is an unnecessary headache. The React crowd would do good to stop being in denial about this.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        React is not a web framework... You think of things like Next or Remix, those are. There's no inversion of control, it's not a framework. Words mean things
        spankalee 3y ago
        React is a framework. There is inversion of control: React calls into component to make them go, not the other way around like a normal dependency.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Have you used React? It doesn't do that stuff for you. You need to call another lib (react-dom) to make it happen. If you are not aware about it perhaps you've used a framework or template not react itself :)
        iamcreasy 3y ago
        Distinction between library and framework has nothing to do with how much stuff they do. The difference is - as the parent comment said - inversion of control. Can you create React component and take full control of component lifecycle outside of React rendering loop? - if yes, then you can call it a library. I think React doc, by calling Next a framework, is referring to a set of practices and protocols. But different usage of same nomenclature in the same discipline is very common.

spankalee 3y ago

React is a framework because it calls into the the components to make them go, not the other way around - the Holywood Principle. This shows up with restrictions like that you can't mix and match components with different versions of React in the same tree.

HatchedLake721 3y ago
Even React homepage calls itself a library, and mentions Next.js/Remix/Gatsby/Expo as React frameworks you can use.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  Doesn’t change that framework has a definition that react meets. The renderer runs your code, that’s a framework
  - a_wild_dandan 3y ago
    Your definition is very...unintuitive to me. Control inversion (the Hollywood Principle) isn't relevant -- many systems which use it aren't remotely frameworks. Most people view libraries as tools which target narrowly scoped sub-problems of a given solution/application. In React's case, it's a view library -- the V in MVC, for instance. Frameworks are generally considered holistic set of tools which tightly integrate together to form a structured & opinionated approach to the larger solution, e.g the entire MVC approach. React is widely considered a library. React doesn't tell you how to structure your project, manage its backend communication, handle application state, routing, etc. React is just...not a framework. For any standard notion of what engineers mean when using the term. If you use IoC to distinguish libs/frameworks, you're going to confuse the hell outta people. There are certainly technologies which straddle the line between these terms, but React is not one of them.
    - Tade0 3y ago
      > React doesn't tell you how to structure your project, manage its backend communication, handle application state, routing, etc. React is just...not a framework. Technically it doesn't, but the conventions that grew around it and the availability of learning material effectively produced same default choices, making it a framework via convention. And I see it as a good thing, because having several competing router implementations is an unnecessary headache. The React crowd would do good to stop being in denial about this.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        React is not a web framework... You think of things like Next or Remix, those are. There's no inversion of control, it's not a framework. Words mean things
        spankalee 3y ago
        React is a framework. There is inversion of control: React calls into component to make them go, not the other way around like a normal dependency.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Have you used React? It doesn't do that stuff for you. You need to call another lib (react-dom) to make it happen. If you are not aware about it perhaps you've used a framework or template not react itself :)
        iamcreasy 3y ago
        Distinction between library and framework has nothing to do with how much stuff they do. The difference is - as the parent comment said - inversion of control. Can you create React component and take full control of component lifecycle outside of React rendering loop? - if yes, then you can call it a library. I think React doc, by calling Next a framework, is referring to a set of practices and protocols. But different usage of same nomenclature in the same discipline is very common.