4 ms·

Or gives meaning - it's possible to derive value from doing successful hard work outside of any external validation (promotions, accolades, raises, etc).

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Do people who say this sort of thing not have families? Put your hard work in at home, in your own community. It's still work if no one is paying you for it.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Do people who say that sort of thing work for a company that they believe is totally worthless? Work can still be valuable (to one's community even) if someone else is making money from it.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    They specifically mentioned work as meaning-making. And no work provides meaning as raising children or spending time with my elders does, no. Once I've met my obligations to my employer my extra energy goes into my people.
    - halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
      I think you took what I was saying as giving exclusive meaning. Work is just a part of life. I'm not seeing anybody making the argument that work is the ultimate meaning of life.
      - ilovetux 3y ago
        You might not be seeing it here in these comments, but there are definitely workplaces where you are scoffed at if make a request like taking the afternoon off to go see your child play soccer. These places thrive on people forgoing any personal life in order to line someone else's pockets.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Having been in a situation where helping out with kids caused massive insecurity issues and resulted in major problems, and helping with non-profits resulted in being stalked by some very problematic people? Be careful what you wish for.
  - everforward 3y ago
    > Do people who say that sort if thing work for a company that they believe is totally worthless? Work can still be valuable (to one's community even) if someone else is making money from it. Sure, the value is just distributed the opposite of the way most people would like it to be. The vast majority of the benefits accrue to a practically random individual, some goes to the worker, and a tiny bit trickles to the community. I would wager most people are far more interested in situations where the worker and community benefit greatly, and a tiny bit trickles to whoever owns the business. Besides that, if you wanted to benefit your community there are much better and easier than ways than grinding away at work and being proud of the income tax you pay, I guess?
    - thfuran 3y ago
      Yes, I'm sure a community without doctors or nurses or social workers or public defenders would be glad about all that retained value.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - chownie 3y ago
        From the guidelines: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. ---------- The vast majority are not doctors, nurses or public defenders. The vast majority work for private companies whose direct value to the local community is much less obvious, with the exception of paying people who (might?) live close by to the business.
        PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        please don't do this, it's the lowest form of rebuttal and is itself technically breaking the guidelines.
        chownie 3y ago
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    It's not even the company, it's your coworkers and a sense of responsibility towards them. Never at the expense at being abused by the company themselves, but I have to imagine those that don't see the value in being trusted by your coworkers (and trusting them in return) are probably just really crappy coworkers. Shitty companies exist and you must always be prepared to protect yourself against abuse, but it's ridiculous to look down on those who want what they do 8+ hours a day to have value.
- halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
  I'm not sure why you can't put hard work into home, community and your job? Is there a specific reason you think that is the case? You could make the argument that working hard at your job is setting an example for your family (kids) and community (through leadership/running a successful business/employing people of the community/etc).
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    If you have as much time as you want and never get tired then sure, do it all. Most people seem to experience tradeoffs between these things but I'm sure some don't. For the second thing, you could make that argument. Are you? Because I'm old, and our fathers mostly considered "good parenting" to be work as hard as possible outside the home to aspire to wealth and model hard work. And I don't know any of my generational peers that aim to emulate them in this, because it makes you a distant and uninvolved member of your family. So if you're going to make this argument for yourself you certainly can. I've experienced first hand what "setting a good example" through labor does for your children.
    - halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
      I see what you're saying and I very well may have a father who fits the archetype you're describing but it's hard to generalize or stereotype because there's so many family dynamics at play when we grow up. Not denying your experience, I'm sure the "alpha male, hard worker" father figure (or parent figure) has had a net negative in some families but in my specific instance, it's brought passion and ownership into other parts of my life (marriage, kids, etc). It's also made me realize that yes, I want to be there for my kids more than my dad did, but I also have personal goals related to work that I want to accomplish in my life, more macro-level goals. It's also made me more involved in my community because I want more ownership in what's going on around me. It's definitely a balance and you need the self-awareness and time management to finese it.
    - c0pium 3y ago
      I know a lot of people whose parents set a good example by working hard and moving up, and were also very present to them. It’s pretty normal in my peer group for this to have been the case. The fact that your tiny view of humanity doesn’t include those people doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
- lazide 3y ago
  Many times doing that will cause far worse problems, especially at home. Work is at least ‘safe’.
vkou 3y ago
It would be nice if my landlord derived value from doing the socially useful service of providing housing outside of any external validations like the rent I pay him.
anigbrowl 3y ago
'Meaning' doesn't pay the rent or preserve your job if you appear in the wrong part of someone's spreadsheet. It's dangerous to internalize concepts like this because you will get shafted by people who don't share them.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Do people who say this sort of thing not have families? Put your hard work in at home, in your own community. It's still work if no one is paying you for it.

thfuran 3y ago
Do people who say that sort of thing work for a company that they believe is totally worthless? Work can still be valuable (to one's community even) if someone else is making money from it.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  They specifically mentioned work as meaning-making. And no work provides meaning as raising children or spending time with my elders does, no. Once I've met my obligations to my employer my extra energy goes into my people.
  - halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
    I think you took what I was saying as giving exclusive meaning. Work is just a part of life. I'm not seeing anybody making the argument that work is the ultimate meaning of life.
    - ilovetux 3y ago
      You might not be seeing it here in these comments, but there are definitely workplaces where you are scoffed at if make a request like taking the afternoon off to go see your child play soccer. These places thrive on people forgoing any personal life in order to line someone else's pockets.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Having been in a situation where helping out with kids caused massive insecurity issues and resulted in major problems, and helping with non-profits resulted in being stalked by some very problematic people? Be careful what you wish for.
- everforward 3y ago
  > Do people who say that sort if thing work for a company that they believe is totally worthless? Work can still be valuable (to one's community even) if someone else is making money from it. Sure, the value is just distributed the opposite of the way most people would like it to be. The vast majority of the benefits accrue to a practically random individual, some goes to the worker, and a tiny bit trickles to the community. I would wager most people are far more interested in situations where the worker and community benefit greatly, and a tiny bit trickles to whoever owns the business. Besides that, if you wanted to benefit your community there are much better and easier than ways than grinding away at work and being proud of the income tax you pay, I guess?
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Yes, I'm sure a community without doctors or nurses or social workers or public defenders would be glad about all that retained value.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - chownie 3y ago
      From the guidelines: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. ---------- The vast majority are not doctors, nurses or public defenders. The vast majority work for private companies whose direct value to the local community is much less obvious, with the exception of paying people who (might?) live close by to the business.
      - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        please don't do this, it's the lowest form of rebuttal and is itself technically breaking the guidelines.
        chownie 3y ago
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  It's not even the company, it's your coworkers and a sense of responsibility towards them. Never at the expense at being abused by the company themselves, but I have to imagine those that don't see the value in being trusted by your coworkers (and trusting them in return) are probably just really crappy coworkers. Shitty companies exist and you must always be prepared to protect yourself against abuse, but it's ridiculous to look down on those who want what they do 8+ hours a day to have value.
halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
I'm not sure why you can't put hard work into home, community and your job? Is there a specific reason you think that is the case? You could make the argument that working hard at your job is setting an example for your family (kids) and community (through leadership/running a successful business/employing people of the community/etc).
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  If you have as much time as you want and never get tired then sure, do it all. Most people seem to experience tradeoffs between these things but I'm sure some don't. For the second thing, you could make that argument. Are you? Because I'm old, and our fathers mostly considered "good parenting" to be work as hard as possible outside the home to aspire to wealth and model hard work. And I don't know any of my generational peers that aim to emulate them in this, because it makes you a distant and uninvolved member of your family. So if you're going to make this argument for yourself you certainly can. I've experienced first hand what "setting a good example" through labor does for your children.
  - halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
    I see what you're saying and I very well may have a father who fits the archetype you're describing but it's hard to generalize or stereotype because there's so many family dynamics at play when we grow up. Not denying your experience, I'm sure the "alpha male, hard worker" father figure (or parent figure) has had a net negative in some families but in my specific instance, it's brought passion and ownership into other parts of my life (marriage, kids, etc). It's also made me realize that yes, I want to be there for my kids more than my dad did, but I also have personal goals related to work that I want to accomplish in my life, more macro-level goals. It's also made me more involved in my community because I want more ownership in what's going on around me. It's definitely a balance and you need the self-awareness and time management to finese it.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    I know a lot of people whose parents set a good example by working hard and moving up, and were also very present to them. It’s pretty normal in my peer group for this to have been the case. The fact that your tiny view of humanity doesn’t include those people doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
lazide 3y ago
Many times doing that will cause far worse problems, especially at home. Work is at least ‘safe’.

vkou 3y ago

It would be nice if my landlord derived value from doing the socially useful service of providing housing outside of any external validations like the rent I pay him.

anigbrowl 3y ago

'Meaning' doesn't pay the rent or preserve your job if you appear in the wrong part of someone's spreadsheet. It's dangerous to internalize concepts like this because you will get shafted by people who don't share them.