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Microsoft both directly and indirectly turned app developers away from Windows Phone. Mobile games at the time were all OpenGL ES, which Microsoft refused to s

Microsoft both directly and indirectly turned app developers away from Windows Phone. Mobile games at the time were all OpenGL ES, which Microsoft refused to support in favor of Direct3D. Then there was Microsoft's perpetual need to start over. WM6.5 to WP7 broke app compatibility. WP7 to WP8, entirely new APIs. WP8 to WM10 there was UWP and Continuum, again forcing major rewrites if you wanted the new features. And finally how Microsoft treated the devs themselves. Ad-supported apps depended on Microsoft's ad network which was artificially kept alive by Microsoft injecting money for Xbox and Office ads. Once Microsoft stopped, the whole thing folded, leaving developers with a sudden loss of income. Developers from countries in Microsoft's 2nd tier additionally reported poor treatment and Kafka'esque bureaucracy preventing them from publishing apps: https://toshl.com/blog/why-publishing-on-the-windows-phone-marketplace-is-like-walking-barefoot-on-broken-glass/ https://toshl.com/blog/why-publishing-on-the-windows-phone-m... This is why I think the app situation would not have fixed itself over time, and MS efforts to ease transition like Project Islandwood were doomed from the start, because those fixed a problem but not the problem.

pjmlp 3y ago
There was no lack of games, Valve even needs to emulate DirectX and Win32, as Android developers couldn't care less about Steam Deck. The rewrites across multiple versions, that is what killed the desire to target the devices.
- potwinkle 3y ago
  What does the Steam Deck have to do with an ARM phone running a shitty locked-down version of "Windows" with a lobotomized DirectX that has half the features? You can whine all you want about OpenGL/Metal/Vulkan but it doesn't change the fact that Windows Phone failed where Android and iOS succeeded.
- chithanh 3y ago
  There were numerous comments from game developers, including from folks here on HN, that the lack of OpenGL ES was a major obstacle for porting games to Windows Phone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434891 I don't understand what you write about Valve, the Steam Deck supports unmodified Win32 games which use DirectX.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    One random dude on HN isn't numerous comments from game developers. The effort to port between Windows and Windows Phone was way less than between Windows and XBox.
    - chithanh 3y ago
      The comment which I linked was just an illustration. And I was talking about porting mobile games from iOS/Android to Windows Phone. Besides that, porting wasn't easy even for apps which worked on Windows already. The API was quite different, and not in a good way. For example none of the standard Windows file I/O API was available. There was DirectX but it was DX11 FL9_3 which is not how you access GPUs on desktop Windows (you would either use DX9 or DX11 FL11_x).
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        An illustration without market relevance. It was still DirectX and Win32 for the most part. Only FOSS indie devs make such an uproar of OpenGL and friends. Walk around GDC, PAX, GDCE to see how much professional game developers care.
iforgotpassword 3y ago
To me it was also crazy how basically being the third player to the table for the modern smartphone, they pretended to already be in Apple's position. Like you said, lack of third party apps killed it. On a whim I wanted to dabble in WP dev a bit in I think late 2014, and just to launch the dev environment I needed to have a dev account which was still paid at that point iirc. I guess that's how you get more people to port their apps over to a platform that has no market share. And obviously the lack of all the Google apps. Again there was obviously some manager on crack thinking that that'll get everyone to switch to the according Microsoft offerings, and maybe people just stop using YouTube. But surprise, it didn't work out! Also the aggressive power saving which meant every time you were sending some photos on WhatsApp or other messenger, you had to make sure to keep the screen on and the app in the foreground until it's done uploading, otherwise there was a 90% chance it would get aborted and restarted next time you turned on the screen.

pjmlp 3y ago

There was no lack of games, Valve even needs to emulate DirectX and Win32, as Android developers couldn't care less about Steam Deck. The rewrites across multiple versions, that is what killed the desire to target the devices.

potwinkle 3y ago
What does the Steam Deck have to do with an ARM phone running a shitty locked-down version of "Windows" with a lobotomized DirectX that has half the features? You can whine all you want about OpenGL/Metal/Vulkan but it doesn't change the fact that Windows Phone failed where Android and iOS succeeded.
chithanh 3y ago
There were numerous comments from game developers, including from folks here on HN, that the lack of OpenGL ES was a major obstacle for porting games to Windows Phone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434891 I don't understand what you write about Valve, the Steam Deck supports unmodified Win32 games which use DirectX.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  One random dude on HN isn't numerous comments from game developers. The effort to port between Windows and Windows Phone was way less than between Windows and XBox.
  - chithanh 3y ago
    The comment which I linked was just an illustration. And I was talking about porting mobile games from iOS/Android to Windows Phone. Besides that, porting wasn't easy even for apps which worked on Windows already. The API was quite different, and not in a good way. For example none of the standard Windows file I/O API was available. There was DirectX but it was DX11 FL9_3 which is not how you access GPUs on desktop Windows (you would either use DX9 or DX11 FL11_x).
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      An illustration without market relevance. It was still DirectX and Win32 for the most part. Only FOSS indie devs make such an uproar of OpenGL and friends. Walk around GDC, PAX, GDCE to see how much professional game developers care.

iforgotpassword 3y ago

To me it was also crazy how basically being the third player to the table for the modern smartphone, they pretended to already be in Apple's position. Like you said, lack of third party apps killed it. On a whim I wanted to dabble in WP dev a bit in I think late 2014, and just to launch the dev environment I needed to have a dev account which was still paid at that point iirc. I guess that's how you get more people to port their apps over to a platform that has no market share. And obviously the lack of all the Google apps. Again there was obviously some manager on crack thinking that that'll get everyone to switch to the according Microsoft offerings, and maybe people just stop using YouTube. But surprise, it didn't work out! Also the aggressive power saving which meant every time you were sending some photos on WhatsApp or other messenger, you had to make sure to keep the screen on and the app in the foreground until it's done uploading, otherwise there was a 90% chance it would get aborted and restarted next time you turned on the screen.