4 ms·

> if you are actually congested, go to the pharmacy counter and get Pseudoephedrine Yes, that's what works for me. And of course it used to be available OTC un

by pdonis 3y ago

> if you are actually congested, go to the pharmacy counter and get Pseudoephedrine Yes, that's what works for me. And of course it used to be available OTC until the government decided to control access to it because of fears of meth.

azinman2 3y ago
Not fears, but actual improper usage.
- goodluckchuck 3y ago
  What does that even mean? If you try to keep milk cold by putting it in the oven, that’s improper usage. It won’t stay cold. If you’re saying people are trying to get high and are successful getting high, then it sounds like they’re accomplishing their goal and their usage of the product is proper for their intended use case. Edit: Oh, you’re saying you don’t like what others are doing, but aren’t actually willing to state the fact that its just like your opinion man.
- pdonis 3y ago
  No, fears that leaving it available OTC would result in lots of people using it to make meth. Which, as far as I can tell, was a fantasy: yes, lots of people were using meth, but there was no real evidence that they were using OTC pseudoephedrine to do it. (And, as others have pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, there is no need to go through all the work of making it from pseudoephedrine when the Mexican drug cartels can provide it cheaper anyway.) Which makes the government's position rather like the old joke about the man who claimed to have invented anti-tiger dust: Look at this wonderful anti-tiger dust I've invented? But this is the USA, there are no wild tigers within thousands of miles of here. See how effective my dust is?
CodeAndCuffs 3y ago
I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, it was just behind the counter/required an ID to track if you're grabbing a pack from every Walgreens in a 50 mile radius in a single night
- Arrath 3y ago
  > Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, That's jurisdiction dependent. I had to remember to pack some when traveling for work in Oregon, since it was not available, even behind the counter.
- technothrasher 3y ago
  > I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Really? I couldn't find any data from that far back, but data from 2009 on shows that meth usage, overdose, and arrests climb pretty dramatically pretty much every year.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  > I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. It’s now synthesized in industrial sized cartel owned labs in Mexico using Chinese precursors and smuggled into the US, there’s no reason to keep pseudoephedrine restricted when it’s easier and cheaper to just buy the plentiful and cheap meth on the street.
  - Fatnino 3y ago
    Cheap meth can't compete with free shop lifted ingredients in homemade meth.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Do you know it was pseudoephedrine? I remember you could buy bottles of mini-thins at the pos of pretty much every liquor store in the country in the late 90s/early 00s. Used to be sold in bottles of 100 for like 5 bucks.
- goodluckchuck 3y ago
  Source?
- pdonis 3y ago
technothrasher 3y ago
> until the government decided to control access to it because of fears of meth. Passed as part of the Patriot Act re-authorization bill in 2005, because everybody knows terrorists and pseudoephedrine go hand in hand.
- justinjlynn 3y ago
  If I recall correctly, it was the resulting cash flow that needed to be laundered, and the potential of those operations to eventually result in the funding of terrorism, that was the alleged concern.

by pdonis 3y ago

azinman2 3y ago

Not fears, but actual improper usage.

goodluckchuck 3y ago
What does that even mean? If you try to keep milk cold by putting it in the oven, that’s improper usage. It won’t stay cold. If you’re saying people are trying to get high and are successful getting high, then it sounds like they’re accomplishing their goal and their usage of the product is proper for their intended use case. Edit: Oh, you’re saying you don’t like what others are doing, but aren’t actually willing to state the fact that its just like your opinion man.
pdonis 3y ago
No, fears that leaving it available OTC would result in lots of people using it to make meth. Which, as far as I can tell, was a fantasy: yes, lots of people were using meth, but there was no real evidence that they were using OTC pseudoephedrine to do it. (And, as others have pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, there is no need to go through all the work of making it from pseudoephedrine when the Mexican drug cartels can provide it cheaper anyway.) Which makes the government's position rather like the old joke about the man who claimed to have invented anti-tiger dust: Look at this wonderful anti-tiger dust I've invented? But this is the USA, there are no wild tigers within thousands of miles of here. See how effective my dust is?

CodeAndCuffs 3y ago

I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, it was just behind the counter/required an ID to track if you're grabbing a pack from every Walgreens in a 50 mile radius in a single night

Arrath 3y ago
> Also, it's still available without a prescription, last I checked, That's jurisdiction dependent. I had to remember to pack some when traveling for work in Oregon, since it was not available, even behind the counter.
technothrasher 3y ago
> I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. Really? I couldn't find any data from that far back, but data from 2009 on shows that meth usage, overdose, and arrests climb pretty dramatically pretty much every year.
quickthrowman 3y ago
> I mean we can see a demonstrable and quantifiable MASSIVE decrease in meth usage and overdose circa 2005 when the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act went into effect. It’s now synthesized in industrial sized cartel owned labs in Mexico using Chinese precursors and smuggled into the US, there’s no reason to keep pseudoephedrine restricted when it’s easier and cheaper to just buy the plentiful and cheap meth on the street.
- Fatnino 3y ago
  Cheap meth can't compete with free shop lifted ingredients in homemade meth.
2devnull 3y ago
Do you know it was pseudoephedrine? I remember you could buy bottles of mini-thins at the pos of pretty much every liquor store in the country in the late 90s/early 00s. Used to be sold in bottles of 100 for like 5 bucks.
goodluckchuck 3y ago
Source?
pdonis 3y ago

technothrasher 3y ago

> until the government decided to control access to it because of fears of meth. Passed as part of the Patriot Act re-authorization bill in 2005, because everybody knows terrorists and pseudoephedrine go hand in hand.

justinjlynn 3y ago
If I recall correctly, it was the resulting cash flow that needed to be laundered, and the potential of those operations to eventually result in the funding of terrorism, that was the alleged concern.