5 ms·

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways peop

by ctide 15y ago

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately for you, lots of people drink. It's not just a programmer thing. It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable going to conferences because of the drinking, but unfortunately, it's something you should probably learn to accept. You can move cities, change careers, do whatever you want, but unfortunately, you're going to find that people socialize via drinking just about everywhere.

rcfox 15y ago
> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?
- michaelneale 15y ago
  > So if you don't drink you're not a person? ctide didn't say anything of the sort. I think ctide was trying to generalise from programmers -> people not implying all of humanity. I have seen this phenomena (?) of "binge conferences" in many other circles - medical, engineering, accounting, legal. Journalism.. the list goes on, so it is a fair point.
  - envex 15y ago
    I think the main reason it turns into "binge conferences" is because people treat them as a vacation. Away from home, why not have a few drinks. I'd bet $5 that the tap at GitHub isn't used to binge (as much as the author thinks). It's like a foosball table, used for a week straight, then forgot about.
- burke 15y ago
  No, then if you don't drink, you simply don't participate in one of the most prominent ways people socialize. There was no implication of sub-humanity there. Strawmen are bad. Even including Islamic countries in the set, drinking is still one of the most prominent ways people in general socialize on average.
  - pbiggar 15y ago
    > No, then if you don't drink, you simply don't participate in one of the most prominent ways people socialize. If that were true that would be bad - drinking at conferences would then truly alienate non-drinkers. But actually, non-drinkers can participate just fine in one of the most prominent ways people socialize.
- chc 15y ago
  When it sounds like somebody is saying something totally crazy, before you jump down their throat, try taking a step back and see if there's a more reasonable way to interpret it. Even exceptionally clear statements in English can often be taken two ways — this is one of the reasons that writing instruction manuals is so devilishly hard — and it's unreasonable to expect even that level of clarity from everyone all the time. In this particular case, it's more likely that the grandparent meant "this is something that most people do — programmers are not unusual in this regard, so it's weird to single them out."
- abduhl 15y ago
  Ignoring the whole leap to conclusions thing going on here, I'd just like to add that at least half of all Muslims I know drink socially. And, from what I've heard, alcohol in countries like Iran is much like marijuana in the USA.
- rcfox 15y ago
  Okay, I'll admit to being rather hyperbolic here. However, when you say things like, "This is something that people do." it sounds a lot like you're making a universal statement about people everywhere. Arguments of the type of "well, I've seen lots of people do this" just smell of availability bias. I can't argue that you're wrong, but you haven't given a good enough argument for me to conclude that you're correct.
  - chc 15y ago
    Are you really questioning that drinking is an enormously popular activity in most of the world? It's pretty common knowledge that drinking is popular, and its popularity is pretty close to universal. For example, according to the World Health Organization, drinkers are the vast majority of the adult population in most developed countries. Drinking as a common social activity is even mentioned in the Bible and other ancient texts. The OP, on the other hand, is much more of a "Well, I've seen lots of people do this" argument: It's explicitly based on his personal experience with conferences.
    - nknight 15y ago
      Sex is probably at least as common as alcohol consumption. Doesn't that mean it belongs in a professional environment too, then?
rlivsey 15y ago
Exactly, it's not a programmer thing, it's a culture thing. Non-development oriented conferences I've been to end up in the bar too. It's not just conferences, plenty of non developer activities I've been to end up with most people congregating in a pub/bar afterwards, all of them with a mix of age ranges and healthy ratio of women/men. Mountain biking trips, rock climbing weekends, skiing trips, beer festivals - actually scratch that last one. It might be more pronounced in tech companies and conferences than in some other areas because the age range is probably skewed a bit more to the lower end (baseless assumption) than in other fields?
jigarashah 15y ago
I don't think guy has problem with drinking...Its about focus. And he is right, people go to these conference just 4 drinking and partying hard. Actual talks just get over shadowed with these booze parties. Its not "necessary" to make them part of culture...It should be optional. Come-on, most part of a 650$ conf ticket is for booze ...isn't it.. ? I think it should be like paid (and discounted..) "buy extra coupon" if u want to booze...
- vhata 15y ago
  No, it isn't. As organizer of http://scaleconf.org/ http://scaleconf.org/ I can tell you that almost all of the money goes towards venue hire, lunch/coffee/daytime refreshments, internet and AV equipment, and depending on the conference, flying speakers in. Then, at the end, you've got a couple of thousand dollars left over, and that goes on the bar tab. Think about how many dollars worth of alcohol you would drink during a two day conference, then drop the amount because there's a lot of buying in bulk and people who don't go to the parties or drink. It doesn't come anywhere near "most part of a $650 conf ticket".
- antihero 14y ago
  I can understand that he might get annoyed with the culture of trying to make programming "cool" by having everything at bars, but seriously, he needs to get over himself. That said, I'm quitting drinking/smoking for a month so it will be interesting to see things from his perspective.

by ctide 15y ago

rcfox 15y ago

> It's one of the most prominent ways people socialize. Not programmers, people. So if you don't drink you're not a person? Alcohol is generally prohibited in Islam. Are you going to tell me that there are entire nations inhabited by human non-people?

michaelneale 15y ago
> So if you don't drink you're not a person? ctide didn't say anything of the sort. I think ctide was trying to generalise from programmers -> people not implying all of humanity. I have seen this phenomena (?) of "binge conferences" in many other circles - medical, engineering, accounting, legal. Journalism.. the list goes on, so it is a fair point.
- envex 15y ago
  I think the main reason it turns into "binge conferences" is because people treat them as a vacation. Away from home, why not have a few drinks. I'd bet $5 that the tap at GitHub isn't used to binge (as much as the author thinks). It's like a foosball table, used for a week straight, then forgot about.
burke 15y ago
No, then if you don't drink, you simply don't participate in one of the most prominent ways people socialize. There was no implication of sub-humanity there. Strawmen are bad. Even including Islamic countries in the set, drinking is still one of the most prominent ways people in general socialize on average.
- pbiggar 15y ago
  > No, then if you don't drink, you simply don't participate in one of the most prominent ways people socialize. If that were true that would be bad - drinking at conferences would then truly alienate non-drinkers. But actually, non-drinkers can participate just fine in one of the most prominent ways people socialize.
chc 15y ago
When it sounds like somebody is saying something totally crazy, before you jump down their throat, try taking a step back and see if there's a more reasonable way to interpret it. Even exceptionally clear statements in English can often be taken two ways — this is one of the reasons that writing instruction manuals is so devilishly hard — and it's unreasonable to expect even that level of clarity from everyone all the time. In this particular case, it's more likely that the grandparent meant "this is something that most people do — programmers are not unusual in this regard, so it's weird to single them out."
abduhl 15y ago
Ignoring the whole leap to conclusions thing going on here, I'd just like to add that at least half of all Muslims I know drink socially. And, from what I've heard, alcohol in countries like Iran is much like marijuana in the USA.
rcfox 15y ago
Okay, I'll admit to being rather hyperbolic here. However, when you say things like, "This is something that people do." it sounds a lot like you're making a universal statement about people everywhere. Arguments of the type of "well, I've seen lots of people do this" just smell of availability bias. I can't argue that you're wrong, but you haven't given a good enough argument for me to conclude that you're correct.
- chc 15y ago
  Are you really questioning that drinking is an enormously popular activity in most of the world? It's pretty common knowledge that drinking is popular, and its popularity is pretty close to universal. For example, according to the World Health Organization, drinkers are the vast majority of the adult population in most developed countries. Drinking as a common social activity is even mentioned in the Bible and other ancient texts. The OP, on the other hand, is much more of a "Well, I've seen lots of people do this" argument: It's explicitly based on his personal experience with conferences.
  - nknight 15y ago
    Sex is probably at least as common as alcohol consumption. Doesn't that mean it belongs in a professional environment too, then?

rlivsey 15y ago

Exactly, it's not a programmer thing, it's a culture thing. Non-development oriented conferences I've been to end up in the bar too. It's not just conferences, plenty of non developer activities I've been to end up with most people congregating in a pub/bar afterwards, all of them with a mix of age ranges and healthy ratio of women/men. Mountain biking trips, rock climbing weekends, skiing trips, beer festivals - actually scratch that last one. It might be more pronounced in tech companies and conferences than in some other areas because the age range is probably skewed a bit more to the lower end (baseless assumption) than in other fields?

jigarashah 15y ago

I don't think guy has problem with drinking...Its about focus. And he is right, people go to these conference just 4 drinking and partying hard. Actual talks just get over shadowed with these booze parties. Its not "necessary" to make them part of culture...It should be optional. Come-on, most part of a 650$ conf ticket is for booze ...isn't it.. ? I think it should be like paid (and discounted..) "buy extra coupon" if u want to booze...

vhata 15y ago
No, it isn't. As organizer of http://scaleconf.org/ http://scaleconf.org/ I can tell you that almost all of the money goes towards venue hire, lunch/coffee/daytime refreshments, internet and AV equipment, and depending on the conference, flying speakers in. Then, at the end, you've got a couple of thousand dollars left over, and that goes on the bar tab. Think about how many dollars worth of alcohol you would drink during a two day conference, then drop the amount because there's a lot of buying in bulk and people who don't go to the parties or drink. It doesn't come anywhere near "most part of a $650 conf ticket".
antihero 14y ago
I can understand that he might get annoyed with the culture of trying to make programming "cool" by having everything at bars, but seriously, he needs to get over himself. That said, I'm quitting drinking/smoking for a month so it will be interesting to see things from his perspective.