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It's pure fantasy to think public transit can replace all/most car trips in American cities, even in most of SF. It's not just a matter of "fix service", it's

It's pure fantasy to think public transit can replace all/most car trips in American cities, even in most of SF. It's not just a matter of "fix service", it's you need to completely rebuild the city with 5-10x the population density.

alooPotato 3y ago
well said
reverius42 3y ago
Doesn't even need to be 5-10x the population density. The "inner ring" of Paris is similar density to San Francisco and supports a metro system that I think most would agree makes car trips unnecessary. But the "rebuild the city" part might still be somewhat necessary.
pj_mukh 3y ago
" it's you need to completely rebuild the city with 5-10x the population density." Which..is exactly what is going to happen [1]? [1] https://www.californiacitynews.org/2021/09/california-says-goodbye-single-family-zoning.html https://www.californiacitynews.org/2021/09/california-says-g...
BytesAndGears 3y ago
Living in a European city and relying 100% on public transit and walking, with occasional biking for longer distances, it’s easy. It does not require 5-10x the population density, maybe just 2-3x, at least compared to San Francisco (which is already somewhat dense in parts). It is not a major shift in lifestyle easier. The tallest buildings in some cities in the Netherlands are 2-3 stories, and those cities still have regular buses, trams, and trains. There are even some suburbs full of single family homes, with yards, which still have buses every 8 minutes all day long, and long-distance commuter train service every 20 minutes. Yes the US needs more density for this to be feasible. But San Francisco isn’t that far off on the density that it would needs
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- shiroiuma 3y ago
  This is easier said than done. Making the density 2-3x is still a huge undertaking. With suburbs with single-family homes, this means bulldozing half of it and somehow redrawing all the property lines so the lots are 1/2 - 1/3 as large and building new houses within the new lots. You can't just magically take a subdivision full of McMansions and somehow increase density 2-3x, unless all those houses take in boarders. Also, SF is still pretty unique compared to most American cities. So you might be able to do this stuff in SF, but not so much in places like Houston.

alooPotato 3y ago

well said

reverius42 3y ago

Doesn't even need to be 5-10x the population density. The "inner ring" of Paris is similar density to San Francisco and supports a metro system that I think most would agree makes car trips unnecessary. But the "rebuild the city" part might still be somewhat necessary.

pj_mukh 3y ago

" it's you need to completely rebuild the city with 5-10x the population density." Which..is exactly what is going to happen [1]? [1] https://www.californiacitynews.org/2021/09/california-says-goodbye-single-family-zoning.html https://www.californiacitynews.org/2021/09/california-says-g...

BytesAndGears 3y ago

Living in a European city and relying 100% on public transit and walking, with occasional biking for longer distances, it’s easy. It does not require 5-10x the population density, maybe just 2-3x, at least compared to San Francisco (which is already somewhat dense in parts). It is not a major shift in lifestyle easier. The tallest buildings in some cities in the Netherlands are 2-3 stories, and those cities still have regular buses, trams, and trains. There are even some suburbs full of single family homes, with yards, which still have buses every 8 minutes all day long, and long-distance commuter train service every 20 minutes. Yes the US needs more density for this to be feasible. But San Francisco isn’t that far off on the density that it would needs

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
shiroiuma 3y ago
This is easier said than done. Making the density 2-3x is still a huge undertaking. With suburbs with single-family homes, this means bulldozing half of it and somehow redrawing all the property lines so the lots are 1/2 - 1/3 as large and building new houses within the new lots. You can't just magically take a subdivision full of McMansions and somehow increase density 2-3x, unless all those houses take in boarders. Also, SF is still pretty unique compared to most American cities. So you might be able to do this stuff in SF, but not so much in places like Houston.