15 ms·

If the bus had dynamic routing, so it could show up where I am when I’m ready, and take me where I want to go, I’d be a huge fan. I don’t mean this ironically!

If the bus had dynamic routing, so it could show up where I am when I’m ready, and take me where I want to go, I’d be a huge fan. I don’t mean this ironically! I think dynamically dispatched, self-driving buses and vans will eventually save public transit. They’ll enable a much higher quality of service than current bus systems. Which drive around mostly-empty stopping every few blocks so it takes forever to get anywhere.

Zigurd 3y ago
AVs should in principle liberate public transit from a lot of limitations. Surge capacity should be easier to deploy. Smaller busses on smaller routes should be at less of a cost disadvantage. Pick up and drop off could be more flexible. I live in a semi-rural area that used to have a trolley line to the next town where one could catch a train into Boston. It's also a challenge to optimize school bus routes in a sparsely populated area, and AVs could help with that.
alooPotato 3y ago
we've had uber pool for a while. if that's your definition of public transit then sure, self driving pooled cars would obviously be good.
- harambae 3y ago
  Oddly enough they got rid of both Uber Pool and Lyft Shared in most cities. Definitely Boston, but also half a dozen other cities I've visited. It may still exist somewhere. I wish they hadn't, because my commuter card works with the shared rides. So even if a shared ride was the same price as a normal Uber/Lyft (or even more) I'd do it just to be able to use the commuter card.
  - xnx 3y ago
    Was this a covid thing? I wish they would bring it back.
    - harambae 3y ago
      It was supposed to be for covid I think, but worked after for a while too. The commuter card just verifies that the charge is billed as something under "transportation" (and probably that it's not airfare). It's the Lyft/Uber app that appears to stop you from using the commuter card for non-shared rides. Honestly (and since this is a hacking forum) I have a theory that if you could hook the Lyft/Uber app with Frida or a modified kernel you could push through payment using a commuter card on regular Lyft/Uber rides.
Retric 3y ago
A bus/tram that shows up every 3 minutes (average wait time 1.5 minutes) is going to generally beat dispatched self driving cars in terms of convenience. 20 busses per hour is a completely reasonable level of service for most of the day in a major city and doesn’t need any kind of routings because swapping lines has such a minimal wait time. However, if you’ve only experienced terrible public transit then it seems like you need fundamental change rather than simply doing the same old things just better. Self driving seems like a solid fit for 2am, but driving empty vehicles only makes congestion worse.
- alooPotato 3y ago
  you still have to get to bus stop
  - Retric 3y ago
    So walking 100-200 feet vs waiting longer, entering your destination, paying more even after checking multiple apps for pricing… I am not in great shape but I know which I prefer.
    - alooPotato 3y ago
      show me an american city where a bus stops every 100-200 feet every 3 mins. Heck show me where it'd even be possible in an american city. That sounds like the most inefficient bus ever.
      - Retric 3y ago
        That’s a bus stop every ~1/8th of a mile not 200 feet. You cut it in half because you can walk to the closest stop and cut it in half again before you’re starting at a random point not the worst possibility so 5280/8/2/2 = 165 feet. Except we don’t exit buildings or get on busses in the middle of the street so it’s not random.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      Any bus that has stops every 100-200 feet is unbearably slow. Even every 1/8 of a mile is too much to be an time efficient mode of transportation unless you have BRT imo.
bluGill 3y ago
You don't want dynamic routing. You want frequent predictable routing. Dynamic means you call and 1-15 minutes later a bus comes. Then it takes you to your destination, but you have no idea when you will get there because sometimes it takes long detours for someone else. Frequent predictable routing means when you feel like leaving you just walk out the door confident that the bus will be there soon (even if you see it pulling away just as you arrive), and you quickly learn which buses to transfer to, to get where you want to be.
- xnx 3y ago
  That seems like very 20th century thinking. We should be aspiring to shape public transport to the needs of the riders instead of making the riders learn fixed routes and transfers. Waymo is very likely to be superior to existing public transportation in all dimensions for almost every transit need. There might still be a role for big buses and trains in the peak of rush hour (if that still exists).
  - bluGill 3y ago
    The needs of the rider are predictable. You cannot make shared vehicles both flexible and predictable. Fixed routes are predictable and thus easy to plan your life around. When fixed routes are also frequent there is no sacrifice in that.
    - bumby 3y ago
      I don’t think the needs of the riders are predictable. Large upfront costs and static design routes are a major risk (see the Detroit public transit that serves areas no longer of much interest and is often empty). That’s why many politicians favor buses as an example; they’re flexible enough to move with demand.
  - supertrope 3y ago
    Public transportation depends on a critical mass of customers with significant overlap in their trips. If you deviate from fixed routes you start to describe a taxi service.
stouset 3y ago
I am not aware of a single city across the world that has such a thing, and yet public transit remains incredibly useful and functional in places not-the-US. An enormous part of Europe, for example, even in towns and cities with far less density than those here. Can we pretty please stop acting like this is a complete enigma that nobody else has managed to figure out?
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Hello from Oxford, UK, where we have the Pick Me Up[0] bus! Far more useful than standard buses, unless you live near a bus stop and need a hub and spoke journey into/out of the centre. [0] https://www.whatsoninoxford.net/pickmeup https://www.whatsoninoxford.net/pickmeup
  - stouset 3y ago
    Neat!

Zigurd 3y ago

AVs should in principle liberate public transit from a lot of limitations. Surge capacity should be easier to deploy. Smaller busses on smaller routes should be at less of a cost disadvantage. Pick up and drop off could be more flexible. I live in a semi-rural area that used to have a trolley line to the next town where one could catch a train into Boston. It's also a challenge to optimize school bus routes in a sparsely populated area, and AVs could help with that.

alooPotato 3y ago

we've had uber pool for a while. if that's your definition of public transit then sure, self driving pooled cars would obviously be good.

harambae 3y ago
Oddly enough they got rid of both Uber Pool and Lyft Shared in most cities. Definitely Boston, but also half a dozen other cities I've visited. It may still exist somewhere. I wish they hadn't, because my commuter card works with the shared rides. So even if a shared ride was the same price as a normal Uber/Lyft (or even more) I'd do it just to be able to use the commuter card.
- xnx 3y ago
  Was this a covid thing? I wish they would bring it back.
  - harambae 3y ago
    It was supposed to be for covid I think, but worked after for a while too. The commuter card just verifies that the charge is billed as something under "transportation" (and probably that it's not airfare). It's the Lyft/Uber app that appears to stop you from using the commuter card for non-shared rides. Honestly (and since this is a hacking forum) I have a theory that if you could hook the Lyft/Uber app with Frida or a modified kernel you could push through payment using a commuter card on regular Lyft/Uber rides.

Retric 3y ago

A bus/tram that shows up every 3 minutes (average wait time 1.5 minutes) is going to generally beat dispatched self driving cars in terms of convenience. 20 busses per hour is a completely reasonable level of service for most of the day in a major city and doesn’t need any kind of routings because swapping lines has such a minimal wait time. However, if you’ve only experienced terrible public transit then it seems like you need fundamental change rather than simply doing the same old things just better. Self driving seems like a solid fit for 2am, but driving empty vehicles only makes congestion worse.

alooPotato 3y ago
you still have to get to bus stop
- Retric 3y ago
  So walking 100-200 feet vs waiting longer, entering your destination, paying more even after checking multiple apps for pricing… I am not in great shape but I know which I prefer.
  - alooPotato 3y ago
    show me an american city where a bus stops every 100-200 feet every 3 mins. Heck show me where it'd even be possible in an american city. That sounds like the most inefficient bus ever.
    - Retric 3y ago
      That’s a bus stop every ~1/8th of a mile not 200 feet. You cut it in half because you can walk to the closest stop and cut it in half again before you’re starting at a random point not the worst possibility so 5280/8/2/2 = 165 feet. Except we don’t exit buildings or get on busses in the middle of the street so it’s not random.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Any bus that has stops every 100-200 feet is unbearably slow. Even every 1/8 of a mile is too much to be an time efficient mode of transportation unless you have BRT imo.

bluGill 3y ago

You don't want dynamic routing. You want frequent predictable routing. Dynamic means you call and 1-15 minutes later a bus comes. Then it takes you to your destination, but you have no idea when you will get there because sometimes it takes long detours for someone else. Frequent predictable routing means when you feel like leaving you just walk out the door confident that the bus will be there soon (even if you see it pulling away just as you arrive), and you quickly learn which buses to transfer to, to get where you want to be.

xnx 3y ago
That seems like very 20th century thinking. We should be aspiring to shape public transport to the needs of the riders instead of making the riders learn fixed routes and transfers. Waymo is very likely to be superior to existing public transportation in all dimensions for almost every transit need. There might still be a role for big buses and trains in the peak of rush hour (if that still exists).
- bluGill 3y ago
  The needs of the rider are predictable. You cannot make shared vehicles both flexible and predictable. Fixed routes are predictable and thus easy to plan your life around. When fixed routes are also frequent there is no sacrifice in that.
  - bumby 3y ago
    I don’t think the needs of the riders are predictable. Large upfront costs and static design routes are a major risk (see the Detroit public transit that serves areas no longer of much interest and is often empty). That’s why many politicians favor buses as an example; they’re flexible enough to move with demand.
- supertrope 3y ago
  Public transportation depends on a critical mass of customers with significant overlap in their trips. If you deviate from fixed routes you start to describe a taxi service.

stouset 3y ago

I am not aware of a single city across the world that has such a thing, and yet public transit remains incredibly useful and functional in places not-the-US. An enormous part of Europe, for example, even in towns and cities with far less density than those here. Can we pretty please stop acting like this is a complete enigma that nobody else has managed to figure out?

robertlagrant 3y ago
Hello from Oxford, UK, where we have the Pick Me Up[0] bus! Far more useful than standard buses, unless you live near a bus stop and need a hub and spoke journey into/out of the centre. [0] https://www.whatsoninoxford.net/pickmeup https://www.whatsoninoxford.net/pickmeup
- stouset 3y ago
  Neat!