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We were sold self-driving cars as safer than humans.

unshavedyak 3y ago
And snake oil salesmen exist everywhere, not sure what your point is. Are you saying that they should all be equally safe? If so that would require a level of oversight and control (plus knowledge share?) not typically seen in US government, no? I agree in principle, I’m not defending them at all. However this is exactly what much of the US wants, given how much de regulation and reduced “red tape” is often argued for. Until then, we’re going to get some companies that put everyone’s lives at risk. Hell Tesla alone has over promised to insane degrees (the Full in FSD). I don’t see companies having less power any time soon.
ipqk 3y ago
No one was sold anything yet. These things don't go from 0 to 100 overnight. We've assumed that self-driving cars will be safer than humans in the future, though that's yet to be determined. And even if their safety record is better than humans, they will be more dangerous in different ways than human drivers, much like this recent incident where the woman was dragged and pinned.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  LOL, what? Musk has repeatedly stated that Teslas on FSD/AP are safer than humans, now. You can take issue with the veracity of his claims (and I certainly do, on several levels), but let's not pretend like "no-one is selling this, yet" - let's also not forget, "The driver is only in the seat for legal reasons. The car is driving itself" - that was six years ago now.
  - bhelkey 3y ago
    Tesla's Full Self Driving is driver assistance software and is not an autonomous vehicle[1]. There are rules governing autonomous vehicles in California. They must report all accidents involving their self driving vehicles[2], miles driven, disengagements,... Tesla's FSD does not follow these rules. Tesla's marketing may imply that FSD is an autonomous vehicle. However, today, in California, these are driver assistance programs and not self driving cars. [1]https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2023/02/17/2022-disengagement-report-from-california/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2023/02/17/2022-disen... [2]https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/autonomous-vehicles/autonomous-vehicle-collision-reports/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/auto...
moffkalast 3y ago
What a low bar to pass.
paulgb 3y ago
Given the DMV’s wording I’m waiting to see if anything in the official statement doesn’t hold up, but from Cruise’s statement, this incident is absolutely not a good vindication of human drivers, either: > The [human-driven] Nissan Sentra then tragically struck and propelled the pedestrian into the path of the AV. The AV biased rightward before braking aggressively, but still made contact with the pedestrian. The AV detected a collision, bringing the vehicle to a stop; then attempted to pull over to avoid causing further road safety issues, pulling the individual forward approximately 20 feet. The driver of the Nissan Sentra fled the scene after the collision.
panarky 3y ago
This action is about one specific brand, not the entire product category.
hindsightbias 3y ago
They are. Not one has ever tried to harm me, and I encounter them daily. I can think offhand of a dozen human drivers, motorcyclists and cyclist who have.

And snake oil salesmen exist everywhere, not sure what your point is. Are you saying that they should all be equally safe? If so that would require a level of oversight and control (plus knowledge share?) not typically seen in US government, no? I agree in principle, I’m not defending them at all. However this is exactly what much of the US wants, given how much de regulation and reduced “red tape” is often argued for. Until then, we’re going to get some companies that put everyone’s lives at risk. Hell Tesla alone has over promised to insane degrees (the Full in FSD). I don’t see companies having less power any time soon.

ipqk 3y ago

No one was sold anything yet. These things don't go from 0 to 100 overnight. We've assumed that self-driving cars will be safer than humans in the future, though that's yet to be determined. And even if their safety record is better than humans, they will be more dangerous in different ways than human drivers, much like this recent incident where the woman was dragged and pinned.

FireBeyond 3y ago
LOL, what? Musk has repeatedly stated that Teslas on FSD/AP are safer than humans, now. You can take issue with the veracity of his claims (and I certainly do, on several levels), but let's not pretend like "no-one is selling this, yet" - let's also not forget, "The driver is only in the seat for legal reasons. The car is driving itself" - that was six years ago now.
- bhelkey 3y ago
  Tesla's Full Self Driving is driver assistance software and is not an autonomous vehicle[1]. There are rules governing autonomous vehicles in California. They must report all accidents involving their self driving vehicles[2], miles driven, disengagements,... Tesla's FSD does not follow these rules. Tesla's marketing may imply that FSD is an autonomous vehicle. However, today, in California, these are driver assistance programs and not self driving cars. [1]https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2023/02/17/2022-disengagement-report-from-california/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2023/02/17/2022-disen... [2]https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/autonomous-vehicles/autonomous-vehicle-collision-reports/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/auto...

moffkalast 3y ago

What a low bar to pass.

paulgb 3y ago

Given the DMV’s wording I’m waiting to see if anything in the official statement doesn’t hold up, but from Cruise’s statement, this incident is absolutely not a good vindication of human drivers, either: > The [human-driven] Nissan Sentra then tragically struck and propelled the pedestrian into the path of the AV. The AV biased rightward before braking aggressively, but still made contact with the pedestrian. The AV detected a collision, bringing the vehicle to a stop; then attempted to pull over to avoid causing further road safety issues, pulling the individual forward approximately 20 feet. The driver of the Nissan Sentra fled the scene after the collision.

panarky 3y ago

This action is about one specific brand, not the entire product category.

hindsightbias 3y ago

They are. Not one has ever tried to harm me, and I encounter them daily. I can think offhand of a dozen human drivers, motorcyclists and cyclist who have.