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Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? Telegram is already modified by the Google Play store to bl

Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? Telegram is already modified by the Google Play store to block specific channels.

nvy 3y ago
>Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? Of course it will. This is a certainty.
- nerdo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gosub100 3y ago
    [flagged]
dmitrygr 3y ago
Why the question mark? Replace it with a period. It is cleaner.
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  Because it is a rhetorical question and it would be grammatically incorrect to use a period.
  - MerelyMortal 3y ago
    Perhaps we need a way to show that a question is rhetorical? /r
michaelt 3y ago
> Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? The likes of Google already have content scanners automatically censoring some messages - namely, blocking e-mails about cheap viagra. It would be very easy to add some extra keywords for politically sensitive topics - but we've been blocking spam for 25 years and I can't recall any reports of it happening.
- autoexec 3y ago
  It'd take a whistleblower for us to know about it. Companies have been repeatedly caught filtering politically sensitive topics inappropriately (yahoo comes to mind https://archive.thinkprogress.org/yahoo-appears-to-be-censoring-email-messages-about-wall-street-protests-updated-d9ec9c4fa4eb/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/yahoo-appears-to-be-censor...) but it's usually explained as an "error" and I suspect that in many cases it genuinely is, it's just impossible for us to tell the difference between "caught them red handed censoring" and "caught them red handed being bad at their job"
- johngladtj 3y ago
  If you can't find any instances of politically motivated censorship in Google results you have been willfully blind.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    I didn't ask about search results - I asked about e-mail spam detection performing politically motivated censorship.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Of course it will. They couldn't care less about children, they're just using them as a polical weapon to make people accept it. I have absolutely no doubt that the system will be immediately expanded to search for and punish wrongthink of all sorts.
anthk 3y ago
If you use Android use FDroid, much better.
jjgreen 3y ago
Of course. The UK RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers) Act was widely advertised as a measure to combat terrorism, it very quickly became regularised and is used by local councils to investigate cases of people illegally feeding pigeons. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/british-councils-used-investigatory-powers-ripa-to-secretly-spy-on-public https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/british-counci...
- RajT88 3y ago
  Yep. Argument one is, this system will quickly be used mostly for other things. Argument two: Even if you can stop 100% the transmission of CSAM materials, you are not stopping the abuse of children. Just the secondary abuse of distributing the materials.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    It happened almost immediately in Australia with COVID tracking data[1]. Were I in a position of any type of authority, careers would be ending and jail time would be getting handed out like candy over this. I'm not in charge unfortunately and not enough citizens know how to react to these expansions of power until it impacts them personally. But as soon as the capability exists, it really is a slippery slope: it's far easier to gradually expand the scope and reach by administrative changes, then it is to start the program up initially - and there's no track record of any government reasonably resisting this sort of insider threat. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/police-refused-to-stop-accessing-safewa-app-data-premier-says/100218764 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/police-refused-to-sto...
    - RajT88 3y ago
      Exactly right - and initially the expanded use of these systems is not visible. PRISM, for example, was found to be used frequently by NSA employees to look into the activities of romantic interests or exes. Nobody knew about it for years until an audit took place. We're told that the abuse of this system was unusual and handled appropriately, and no longer a problem. (Is it, really?) The next phase is of course the court cases, where authorities seek legal access to the data which is collected. Usually the police win these cases to establish legal precedent. Still - your average citizen is not reading civil rights-related or tech-related news, and they have no idea this happens. By the time your average person finds out what the newly collected data is being used for, it's far too late to do anything about it. Then there's the political aspect, which we are not likely to ever hear about. The boss's boss's boss's boss needs a favor done, don't ask why or for whom. That data, go get it. Listen, be discreet, no email and no cell phone. This is the one which is the most scary; an authoritarian in power who wants to target the opposition. Depending on the country, that could be a list of people who disappears and is never seen again - or in the US, gets raided over dubious charges by the local police as a form of harassment.

Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? Telegram is already modified by the Google Play store to block specific channels.

nvy 3y ago

>Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? Of course it will. This is a certainty.

nerdo 3y ago
[flagged]
- gosub100 3y ago
  [flagged]

dmitrygr 3y ago

Why the question mark? Replace it with a period. It is cleaner.

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
Because it is a rhetorical question and it would be grammatically incorrect to use a period.
- MerelyMortal 3y ago
  Perhaps we need a way to show that a question is rhetorical? /r

michaelt 3y ago

> Will a CSAM scanner implementation eventually be repurposed to block politically sensitive material? The likes of Google already have content scanners automatically censoring some messages - namely, blocking e-mails about cheap viagra. It would be very easy to add some extra keywords for politically sensitive topics - but we've been blocking spam for 25 years and I can't recall any reports of it happening.

autoexec 3y ago
It'd take a whistleblower for us to know about it. Companies have been repeatedly caught filtering politically sensitive topics inappropriately (yahoo comes to mind https://archive.thinkprogress.org/yahoo-appears-to-be-censoring-email-messages-about-wall-street-protests-updated-d9ec9c4fa4eb/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/yahoo-appears-to-be-censor...) but it's usually explained as an "error" and I suspect that in many cases it genuinely is, it's just impossible for us to tell the difference between "caught them red handed censoring" and "caught them red handed being bad at their job"
johngladtj 3y ago
If you can't find any instances of politically motivated censorship in Google results you have been willfully blind.
- michaelt 3y ago
  I didn't ask about search results - I asked about e-mail spam detection performing politically motivated censorship.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

Of course it will. They couldn't care less about children, they're just using them as a polical weapon to make people accept it. I have absolutely no doubt that the system will be immediately expanded to search for and punish wrongthink of all sorts.

anthk 3y ago

If you use Android use FDroid, much better.

jjgreen 3y ago

Of course. The UK RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers) Act was widely advertised as a measure to combat terrorism, it very quickly became regularised and is used by local councils to investigate cases of people illegally feeding pigeons. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/british-councils-used-investigatory-powers-ripa-to-secretly-spy-on-public https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/british-counci...

RajT88 3y ago
Yep. Argument one is, this system will quickly be used mostly for other things. Argument two: Even if you can stop 100% the transmission of CSAM materials, you are not stopping the abuse of children. Just the secondary abuse of distributing the materials.
- XorNot 3y ago
  It happened almost immediately in Australia with COVID tracking data[1]. Were I in a position of any type of authority, careers would be ending and jail time would be getting handed out like candy over this. I'm not in charge unfortunately and not enough citizens know how to react to these expansions of power until it impacts them personally. But as soon as the capability exists, it really is a slippery slope: it's far easier to gradually expand the scope and reach by administrative changes, then it is to start the program up initially - and there's no track record of any government reasonably resisting this sort of insider threat. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/police-refused-to-stop-accessing-safewa-app-data-premier-says/100218764 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/police-refused-to-sto...
  - RajT88 3y ago
    Exactly right - and initially the expanded use of these systems is not visible. PRISM, for example, was found to be used frequently by NSA employees to look into the activities of romantic interests or exes. Nobody knew about it for years until an audit took place. We're told that the abuse of this system was unusual and handled appropriately, and no longer a problem. (Is it, really?) The next phase is of course the court cases, where authorities seek legal access to the data which is collected. Usually the police win these cases to establish legal precedent. Still - your average citizen is not reading civil rights-related or tech-related news, and they have no idea this happens. By the time your average person finds out what the newly collected data is being used for, it's far too late to do anything about it. Then there's the political aspect, which we are not likely to ever hear about. The boss's boss's boss's boss needs a favor done, don't ask why or for whom. That data, go get it. Listen, be discreet, no email and no cell phone. This is the one which is the most scary; an authoritarian in power who wants to target the opposition. Depending on the country, that could be a list of people who disappears and is never seen again - or in the US, gets raided over dubious charges by the local police as a form of harassment.