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One of the most important reasons companies are no longer engaging via X is that their tools don’t work anymore: > Another change is that it is no longer alway

One of the most important reasons companies are no longer engaging via X is that their tools don’t work anymore: > Another change is that it is no longer always possible for companies to load questions asked via DM on the platform into their customer service systems. This is related to API access for the tools in question, I’d guess. So many businesses and ideas grew up around Twitter’s flexibility and relative openness. Many of those ideas don’t work at all in a monetized model. We’ve known this as a culture for a long time. It’s why we created and continue to use public utilities. Not everything needs to be a profit center.

logifail 3y ago
> So many businesses and ideas grew up around Twitter’s flexibility and relative openness. Many of those ideas don’t work at all in a monetized model Don't work at all, or don't work for free?
- smoldesu 3y ago
  In business, you may find that the two are synonymous with each other when you want to make an attractive platform.
- richbell 3y ago
  Why would they pay for users to send them DMs on Twitter when they can point people to their support site for free?
  - logifail 3y ago
    Why were they keen to provide better support to customers contacting them on Twitter than customers contacting them via email, phone or their own support site? (Spoiler: I think we all know that Social Media was one budget item and Customer Support was a different one, and executives were happy to "invest" in the former and wanted to spend as little as possible on the latter...)
    - richbell 3y ago
      > Why were they keen to provide better support to customers contacting them on Twitter than customers contacting them via email, phone or their own support site? I don't agree with the framing that companies were intentionally providing better support via Twitter. Social media is usually handled by a dedicated marketing team/person; Twitter used to be a completely open platform where people loudly complaining would get noticed. The result was an ecosystem where marketing teams were incentivized to help resolve people's issues and avoid negative PR. Kneecapping this interaction hurts Twitter and its users, not the companies. Twitter no longer has a strong network effect and is no longer open/accessible, so there's little reason for companies to pay even if the use case made sense.
- chx 3y ago
  There's a massive difference between going from free to say a few hundred dollars a month to $42k a month. It's not even whether the org can afford $42k, it's the process. Say 300 USD a month is something a low level boss can easily fit in an existing budget. But $42K a month is something you need to change the budget for. You need to go up very high the chain for that and prove it is worth it. Hint: it is not for most. And even if it does, more than a few orgs will not do it abruptly unless it threatens their core business. Say, you are an airline and a war breaks out so now you need to fly less fuel efficient routes, of course you will find the money for more fuel. But for this, with less than a month notice?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - logifail 3y ago
    > There's a massive difference between going from free to say a few hundred dollars a month to $42k a month For an airline, with enough Twitter staffers to operate 24x7 including holidays, all trained to cope with disruption, reroute/rebook tickets, that figures really seems like it should be a drop in the ocean. Of course, going back to (not) answering the phones is an easy choice for an airline VP of customer (dis)service. Just as long as you're not one of the customers needing timely assistance with a disrupted itinerary while travelling...
    - chx 3y ago
      Have you actually seen an airline where the staff handling Twitter also does the actual rebooking?
      - logifail 3y ago
        Among frequent travellers it's an open secret that you will often get stuff actioned faster by contacting your travel provider via Twitter than you do by contacting the provider directly via phone/email/webform. ( https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34726322-post1.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34726322-post1.html is just one completely random example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. ) Elon or no Elon, this is wrong on several levels. Remember we're talking about private messaging a provider with your details and issue, so it's not like it's some sort of overt "public shaming" the customer services team into prompt action. Maybe there's a(n implied) threat of public shaming given it's Twitter?
- meibo 3y ago
  I've had the displeasure of working with their "new" APIs - the documentation is all over the place, their playground and examples are non-functional, the dashboard looks and works like someone started it as a "your first react project" and didn't bother finishing, and the prices are astronomical. Exactly what you would expect from an underfunded and understaffed team at a social media site that doesn't want to be a social media site anymore, I would be surprised if anyone was actually working on this beyond what they need internally. The developer sign-up has been broken for weeks by the way, it will show you a 500 error in the console without any feedback and you have to spam it to let you in, like most other things in their console.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    Maybe it should just die then. Seriously. It wasn't profitable when Elon took over. Elon made it profitable. If doing that makes it non-functional then perhaps that's because there's no actual business here.
    - viraptor 3y ago
      It was profitable in 2018/2019. It had a big loss in 2020 and almost recovered in 2021. All in all, they weren't doing terribly bad at the time (but not well either). Elon has not made it profitable as far as I know. In 2022 90% of revenue was from ads which got gutted after Elon. 3 months ago, there were still under https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-says-twitters-cash-flow-still-negative-ad-revenue-drops-2023-07-15/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-says-twitters-c... and I haven't seen anything really positive since. And that's ignoring ongoing lawsuits. It still wasn't profitable in September and they don't think it will be until next year https://fortune.com/2023/09/28/linda-yaccarino-x-twitter-ceo-profit-code-conference/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/28/linda-yaccarino-x-twitter-ceo...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Vilian 3y ago
      no he didn't, stop believing in his lies
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
> It’s why we created and continue to use public utilities. Not everything needs to be a profit center. But the market knows aAAAAaaaaAAAAAaallll. My favorite is the segment of HN readers that think things like ISO safety for manufacturing should be repealed and let the market decide (via insurance premiums) as if the money is more important than the prevention of human suffering.

logifail 3y ago

> So many businesses and ideas grew up around Twitter’s flexibility and relative openness. Many of those ideas don’t work at all in a monetized model Don't work at all, or don't work for free?

smoldesu 3y ago
In business, you may find that the two are synonymous with each other when you want to make an attractive platform.
richbell 3y ago
Why would they pay for users to send them DMs on Twitter when they can point people to their support site for free?
- logifail 3y ago
  Why were they keen to provide better support to customers contacting them on Twitter than customers contacting them via email, phone or their own support site? (Spoiler: I think we all know that Social Media was one budget item and Customer Support was a different one, and executives were happy to "invest" in the former and wanted to spend as little as possible on the latter...)
  - richbell 3y ago
    > Why were they keen to provide better support to customers contacting them on Twitter than customers contacting them via email, phone or their own support site? I don't agree with the framing that companies were intentionally providing better support via Twitter. Social media is usually handled by a dedicated marketing team/person; Twitter used to be a completely open platform where people loudly complaining would get noticed. The result was an ecosystem where marketing teams were incentivized to help resolve people's issues and avoid negative PR. Kneecapping this interaction hurts Twitter and its users, not the companies. Twitter no longer has a strong network effect and is no longer open/accessible, so there's little reason for companies to pay even if the use case made sense.
chx 3y ago
There's a massive difference between going from free to say a few hundred dollars a month to $42k a month. It's not even whether the org can afford $42k, it's the process. Say 300 USD a month is something a low level boss can easily fit in an existing budget. But $42K a month is something you need to change the budget for. You need to go up very high the chain for that and prove it is worth it. Hint: it is not for most. And even if it does, more than a few orgs will not do it abruptly unless it threatens their core business. Say, you are an airline and a war breaks out so now you need to fly less fuel efficient routes, of course you will find the money for more fuel. But for this, with less than a month notice?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- logifail 3y ago
  > There's a massive difference between going from free to say a few hundred dollars a month to $42k a month For an airline, with enough Twitter staffers to operate 24x7 including holidays, all trained to cope with disruption, reroute/rebook tickets, that figures really seems like it should be a drop in the ocean. Of course, going back to (not) answering the phones is an easy choice for an airline VP of customer (dis)service. Just as long as you're not one of the customers needing timely assistance with a disrupted itinerary while travelling...
  - chx 3y ago
    Have you actually seen an airline where the staff handling Twitter also does the actual rebooking?
    - logifail 3y ago
      Among frequent travellers it's an open secret that you will often get stuff actioned faster by contacting your travel provider via Twitter than you do by contacting the provider directly via phone/email/webform. ( https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34726322-post1.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34726322-post1.html is just one completely random example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. ) Elon or no Elon, this is wrong on several levels. Remember we're talking about private messaging a provider with your details and issue, so it's not like it's some sort of overt "public shaming" the customer services team into prompt action. Maybe there's a(n implied) threat of public shaming given it's Twitter?
meibo 3y ago
I've had the displeasure of working with their "new" APIs - the documentation is all over the place, their playground and examples are non-functional, the dashboard looks and works like someone started it as a "your first react project" and didn't bother finishing, and the prices are astronomical. Exactly what you would expect from an underfunded and understaffed team at a social media site that doesn't want to be a social media site anymore, I would be surprised if anyone was actually working on this beyond what they need internally. The developer sign-up has been broken for weeks by the way, it will show you a 500 error in the console without any feedback and you have to spam it to let you in, like most other things in their console.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  Maybe it should just die then. Seriously. It wasn't profitable when Elon took over. Elon made it profitable. If doing that makes it non-functional then perhaps that's because there's no actual business here.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    It was profitable in 2018/2019. It had a big loss in 2020 and almost recovered in 2021. All in all, they weren't doing terribly bad at the time (but not well either). Elon has not made it profitable as far as I know. In 2022 90% of revenue was from ads which got gutted after Elon. 3 months ago, there were still under https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-says-twitters-cash-flow-still-negative-ad-revenue-drops-2023-07-15/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-says-twitters-c... and I haven't seen anything really positive since. And that's ignoring ongoing lawsuits. It still wasn't profitable in September and they don't think it will be until next year https://fortune.com/2023/09/28/linda-yaccarino-x-twitter-ceo-profit-code-conference/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/28/linda-yaccarino-x-twitter-ceo...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Vilian 3y ago
    no he didn't, stop believing in his lies

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

> It’s why we created and continue to use public utilities. Not everything needs to be a profit center. But the market knows aAAAAaaaaAAAAAaallll. My favorite is the segment of HN readers that think things like ISO safety for manufacturing should be repealed and let the market decide (via insurance premiums) as if the money is more important than the prevention of human suffering.