5 ms·

I think that depends on the level of disagreement. I think gay people, women, and people of color should have the same rights as everyone else, which includes h

I think that depends on the level of disagreement. I think gay people, women, and people of color should have the same rights as everyone else, which includes how they are treated at work. I'm willing to say that is a mandatory part of my social contract. Someone liking to dress in a cowboy hat, underwear, and playing a guitar in Times Square? Not my cup of tea, but sure, go for it.

toolz 3y ago
It only depends on if it's a social contract, which implies some localized majority. You may believe your ideals are the best in the world, but I assure you many other people with vastly different ideals than your own believe differently with just as much, if not more, conviction. You can't simply beat your chest and claim superiority and thus we need competition of ideas. E.g. the most prosperous happy places on earth tend to have social contracts that look out for groups such as women, homosexuals, etc. You can't simply prove an idea is better by appealing to your own sense of morals/justice and if there's no evidence that some ideals are better than others, how would you reach consensus anyways? In order to make everyone share the same social contract you either have evidence based progress or authoritarianism and historically the evidence suggests authoritarianism doesn't pan out all that great.
- shafoshaf 3y ago
  I think I see what you are saying, an I agree that practically speaking, we have to have some common ground to make things work. So at some point there is also a line that has to be drawn. The Holocaust is one of those lines, and I pray that I would had the strength to stand up to my peers and say, no this isn't right,and go to whatever lengths I thought I could do to make change. In a lot of ways, I think the civil rights movement was a lot of chest beating and I think that actually helped. It's not really clear to me that "most prosperous happy places on earth tend to have social contracts that look out for groups such as women, homosexuals, etc." Certainly, when you look at economic prosperity and I don't know how you'd measure happiness.
  - toolz 3y ago
    I don't really measure it, I wouldn't know exactly where to start, but there are people who try to measure it. https://worldhappiness.report/data/ https://worldhappiness.report/data/ and admittedly I haven't looked at their methods at all, so I'm just parroting information without understanding it. Hopefully I'm not just spreading junk data.

toolz 3y ago

It only depends on if it's a social contract, which implies some localized majority. You may believe your ideals are the best in the world, but I assure you many other people with vastly different ideals than your own believe differently with just as much, if not more, conviction. You can't simply beat your chest and claim superiority and thus we need competition of ideas. E.g. the most prosperous happy places on earth tend to have social contracts that look out for groups such as women, homosexuals, etc. You can't simply prove an idea is better by appealing to your own sense of morals/justice and if there's no evidence that some ideals are better than others, how would you reach consensus anyways? In order to make everyone share the same social contract you either have evidence based progress or authoritarianism and historically the evidence suggests authoritarianism doesn't pan out all that great.

shafoshaf 3y ago
I think I see what you are saying, an I agree that practically speaking, we have to have some common ground to make things work. So at some point there is also a line that has to be drawn. The Holocaust is one of those lines, and I pray that I would had the strength to stand up to my peers and say, no this isn't right,and go to whatever lengths I thought I could do to make change. In a lot of ways, I think the civil rights movement was a lot of chest beating and I think that actually helped. It's not really clear to me that "most prosperous happy places on earth tend to have social contracts that look out for groups such as women, homosexuals, etc." Certainly, when you look at economic prosperity and I don't know how you'd measure happiness.
- toolz 3y ago
  I don't really measure it, I wouldn't know exactly where to start, but there are people who try to measure it. https://worldhappiness.report/data/ https://worldhappiness.report/data/ and admittedly I haven't looked at their methods at all, so I'm just parroting information without understanding it. Hopefully I'm not just spreading junk data.