5 ms·

Nah, the unique tragedy is that some humans want to live forever in a mushy world where everything complicated will eventually crumble and rot. Cancer has been

Nah, the unique tragedy is that some humans want to live forever in a mushy world where everything complicated will eventually crumble and rot. Cancer has been right there for millions of years and the pretty slick biological "intervention" was to just continually be spinning up new generations with a clean slate of cells. It seems to work great on the level of humanity as a whole, and countless tools have been offered to help individuals wrap their head around their individual material mortality. No understanding of cancer or bodies required; no magical chemicals needed; no violated "shoulds" involved. That you may now stare at a cancer and panic isn't a universal part of "human existence", it's just a struggle that some individuals see themselves trapped in when they've lost sight of the bigger picture. That's not to say that medical inventions aren't cool, or that they shouldn't be enjoyed, but the starkness of what they're set against is a very personal and subjective thing. What's tragic is that so many people seem cursed to stare at that darkness these days and lack insight into there even being some very robust alternatives to doing so.

d0odk 3y ago
There are children who die of cancer...
- swatcoder 3y ago
  Yup, and maybe this'll be a help to some. My comment is not pushing back against medical technology, it's pushing back against the idea that human existence is somehow damned to be bleak until some fantastical medical utopia arrives and delivers immortality. You can both enjoy life-extending technology and acknowledge the inevitability of death without all that fretting and drama; many do.
  - d0odk 3y ago
    My point is that many people undergoing cancer treatments are trying to avoid having their lives cut short rather than extend them unnaturally. Children with cancer is an example of this, but it applies to adults as well. Dying of cancer before you get to enjoy a full lifespan IS bleak. And not just for the afflicted person, but also for their friends and family.
noworld 3y ago
everything complicated will eventually crumble and rot, if you ignore intelligence. We still have the USS Constitution after 225 years. Its the same ship. /s(hip of theseus)
kelnos 3y ago
I think it's a little weird to assume that's how everything is "supposed" to be just because that's how it's been. There's really no "supposed to"; there's what there is, and what we can do and change and build. I do agree that some people take this to far: worrying so much about death that they forget to enjoy life, pouring their lives into life-extension measures and leaving precious little time to live. (Then again, the people who pour their lives into life-extension could end up benefiting countless others; how's that for big-picture thinking?) But I'd hardly call it a "tragedy" that humans want to live longer (or even forever). I don't particularly fear death, I don't think (at least not any more than your average human), but I am supremely bummed out that (assuming humanity doesn't destroy itself first) I'm going to miss out on things like advanced spaceflight, viable long-term colonization of other planets and moons in our solar system, and -- if we can figure out that pesky speed of light issue -- travel to and colonization of other solar systems. And that's without getting into more "out there" stuff like mind uploading and catoms and whatnot. Humanity has so much potential, and we're still a childishly young species that has so much room to grow. To me, the tragedy is that I won't get to see what happens with all that. I think the bottom line is that we should stop judging people for how they use their time. I'm sure there are some people who would scoff at some of the things you or I do with our time; who are we to criticize someone for working to lengthen the human lifespan?
- swatcoder 3y ago
  You responded to a lot of things that I didn’t write and wouldn’t write, but your insights are good at articulating why medical technology and life extension can be so exciting!
- thegrimmest 3y ago
  If your expectations don't align with reality, only one of those things are substantially mutable. If this misalignment causes you distress, there's only one thing you can do to fix it. It's simply unreasonable to be "bummed out" that you won't get to see the distant future. We're biological organisms with all the limitations that implies, and there's not any substantial indication that will change anytime soon. This leaves the rational you with one option: only allow yourself to be concerned with things you can influence. Your mortality is not in this category.

d0odk 3y ago

There are children who die of cancer...

swatcoder 3y ago
Yup, and maybe this'll be a help to some. My comment is not pushing back against medical technology, it's pushing back against the idea that human existence is somehow damned to be bleak until some fantastical medical utopia arrives and delivers immortality. You can both enjoy life-extending technology and acknowledge the inevitability of death without all that fretting and drama; many do.
- d0odk 3y ago
  My point is that many people undergoing cancer treatments are trying to avoid having their lives cut short rather than extend them unnaturally. Children with cancer is an example of this, but it applies to adults as well. Dying of cancer before you get to enjoy a full lifespan IS bleak. And not just for the afflicted person, but also for their friends and family.

noworld 3y ago

everything complicated will eventually crumble and rot, if you ignore intelligence. We still have the USS Constitution after 225 years. Its the same ship. /s(hip of theseus)

kelnos 3y ago

I think it's a little weird to assume that's how everything is "supposed" to be just because that's how it's been. There's really no "supposed to"; there's what there is, and what we can do and change and build. I do agree that some people take this to far: worrying so much about death that they forget to enjoy life, pouring their lives into life-extension measures and leaving precious little time to live. (Then again, the people who pour their lives into life-extension could end up benefiting countless others; how's that for big-picture thinking?) But I'd hardly call it a "tragedy" that humans want to live longer (or even forever). I don't particularly fear death, I don't think (at least not any more than your average human), but I am supremely bummed out that (assuming humanity doesn't destroy itself first) I'm going to miss out on things like advanced spaceflight, viable long-term colonization of other planets and moons in our solar system, and -- if we can figure out that pesky speed of light issue -- travel to and colonization of other solar systems. And that's without getting into more "out there" stuff like mind uploading and catoms and whatnot. Humanity has so much potential, and we're still a childishly young species that has so much room to grow. To me, the tragedy is that I won't get to see what happens with all that. I think the bottom line is that we should stop judging people for how they use their time. I'm sure there are some people who would scoff at some of the things you or I do with our time; who are we to criticize someone for working to lengthen the human lifespan?

swatcoder 3y ago
You responded to a lot of things that I didn’t write and wouldn’t write, but your insights are good at articulating why medical technology and life extension can be so exciting!
thegrimmest 3y ago
If your expectations don't align with reality, only one of those things are substantially mutable. If this misalignment causes you distress, there's only one thing you can do to fix it. It's simply unreasonable to be "bummed out" that you won't get to see the distant future. We're biological organisms with all the limitations that implies, and there's not any substantial indication that will change anytime soon. This leaves the rational you with one option: only allow yourself to be concerned with things you can influence. Your mortality is not in this category.