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Once upon a time we purchased 1Password for a set price. The software was completely offline, storing the encrypted vault locally or in dropbox. No need to worr

Once upon a time we purchased 1Password for a set price. The software was completely offline, storing the encrypted vault locally or in dropbox. No need to worry about hackers because there was nothing online to steal. But somebody ran the numbers and decided the way forward to increased profitability was to move everyone's data to the cloud and charge a subscription. And here we are, wondering if our data was compromised.

barbazoo 3y ago
> But somebody ran the numbers and decided the way forward to increased profitability was to move everyone's data to the cloud and charge a subscription. And, you know, the huge increase in convenience for all those people not savvy enough to do it themselves. Also as far as we know, how is it different to have your vault in Dropbox? Dropbox could be hacked and that data is famously not encrypted. We don't know of anyone's 1PAss vault actually being breached yet, do we?
- sugarpile 3y ago
  1. Setup to sync via icloud was very straightforward and 100% fine for "non-tech saavy" 2. Why would it matter if dropbox was hacked? Your vault password was never sent to to dropbox. It was just a dumb store for an encrypted vault. The calculus changes now that the vault is online and stored by the same party you're sending the password to.
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    Your vault password is never sent to 1Password either.
  - smileybarry 3y ago
    > Your vault password was never sent to to dropbox. It was just a dumb store for an encrypted vault. The calculus changes now that the vault is online and stored by the same party you're sending the password to. You never send your password or account key to 1Password. Each side authenticates the other via cryptographic challenges and you receive the same encrypted database that 1P stores, as a dumb file host. They have a whole whitepaper on the security design of 1Password accounts: https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-paper.pdf#Account%20password%20and%20Secret%20Key https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-p... Technically, the earlier OPVault format stored on Dropbox/iCloud/locally was less secure due to generating a key just from your password.
  - elondaits 3y ago
    Was sync to iCloud and Dropbox through a single file? Because there’s no chance to merge databases if they get out of sync. Proper cloud support can handle this.
  - selykg 3y ago
    > 1. Setup to sync via icloud was very straightforward and 100% fine for "non-tech saavy" As someone who did support for 1Password years ago, this is patently false. It was "fine" for tech savvy users, for everyone else it was a big opportunity for problems. New "issues" came about from the switch to a hosted solution, but data syncing issues, mostly, disappeared. Also, to confirm the other commenters, your password is never sent to 1Password in any situation where syncing is involved, whether it be Dropbox/iCloud or the hosted solution. And with the hosted solution your account key is also never sent to 1Password. This is also well documented in their Security White Paper.
  - a10c 3y ago
    I think you should read the 1Password security whitepaper before rambling on about things you clearly haven't spent the time and effort to learn about.
    - sugarpile 3y ago
      Fine, I'll concede poor wording on my part. However, in their white paper they specifically have a section "Crypto over HTTPS" which outlines the risks of their new web UI. Yes, the password stays local if no one mucks with delivered js, however, 1password being compromised would allow serving of modified js. This is a new vector only present due to their new web vault model + associated web UI features. They state it themselves in the whitepaper: "The authenticity and integrity of the web client depends on the security of the host from which it is delivered. An attacker capable of changing the web client on the server could deliver a malicious client to the user"
      - s3p 3y ago
        1P could be 'compromised' and send a malicious version of their software back before they had the subscription model... I don't see how this is involves any more risk.

barbazoo 3y ago

> But somebody ran the numbers and decided the way forward to increased profitability was to move everyone's data to the cloud and charge a subscription. And, you know, the huge increase in convenience for all those people not savvy enough to do it themselves. Also as far as we know, how is it different to have your vault in Dropbox? Dropbox could be hacked and that data is famously not encrypted. We don't know of anyone's 1PAss vault actually being breached yet, do we?

sugarpile 3y ago
1. Setup to sync via icloud was very straightforward and 100% fine for "non-tech saavy" 2. Why would it matter if dropbox was hacked? Your vault password was never sent to to dropbox. It was just a dumb store for an encrypted vault. The calculus changes now that the vault is online and stored by the same party you're sending the password to.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  Your vault password is never sent to 1Password either.
- smileybarry 3y ago
  > Your vault password was never sent to to dropbox. It was just a dumb store for an encrypted vault. The calculus changes now that the vault is online and stored by the same party you're sending the password to. You never send your password or account key to 1Password. Each side authenticates the other via cryptographic challenges and you receive the same encrypted database that 1P stores, as a dumb file host. They have a whole whitepaper on the security design of 1Password accounts: https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-paper.pdf#Account%20password%20and%20Secret%20Key https://1passwordstatic.com/files/security/1password-white-p... Technically, the earlier OPVault format stored on Dropbox/iCloud/locally was less secure due to generating a key just from your password.
- elondaits 3y ago
  Was sync to iCloud and Dropbox through a single file? Because there’s no chance to merge databases if they get out of sync. Proper cloud support can handle this.
- selykg 3y ago
  > 1. Setup to sync via icloud was very straightforward and 100% fine for "non-tech saavy" As someone who did support for 1Password years ago, this is patently false. It was "fine" for tech savvy users, for everyone else it was a big opportunity for problems. New "issues" came about from the switch to a hosted solution, but data syncing issues, mostly, disappeared. Also, to confirm the other commenters, your password is never sent to 1Password in any situation where syncing is involved, whether it be Dropbox/iCloud or the hosted solution. And with the hosted solution your account key is also never sent to 1Password. This is also well documented in their Security White Paper.
- a10c 3y ago
  I think you should read the 1Password security whitepaper before rambling on about things you clearly haven't spent the time and effort to learn about.
  - sugarpile 3y ago
    Fine, I'll concede poor wording on my part. However, in their white paper they specifically have a section "Crypto over HTTPS" which outlines the risks of their new web UI. Yes, the password stays local if no one mucks with delivered js, however, 1password being compromised would allow serving of modified js. This is a new vector only present due to their new web vault model + associated web UI features. They state it themselves in the whitepaper: "The authenticity and integrity of the web client depends on the security of the host from which it is delivered. An attacker capable of changing the web client on the server could deliver a malicious client to the user"
    - s3p 3y ago
      1P could be 'compromised' and send a malicious version of their software back before they had the subscription model... I don't see how this is involves any more risk.