5 ms·

I'm originally from a deeply impoverished rural area where you see a lot of maga flags in yards, etc and I still have a lot of ties to the place. Public health

I'm originally from a deeply impoverished rural area where you see a lot of maga flags in yards, etc and I still have a lot of ties to the place. Public health was already in the gutter after the back to back meth and opioid epidemics plus just the general toll that poverty and hard labor takes on your body. The general mood there was anti mask from the beginning and anti vaccine once that emerged, obviously. And let me tell you, those people got FUCKED UP by covid. No one I know there has any grandparents now! They all died of covid. Several families lost a parent in their 50s to covid, several more to "pneumonia" since like you said they don't even test for it. Another handful are newly bedridden with mysterious illnesses that they're totally sure have nothing to do with covid. I'm not certain that they do either but it's hard to rule it out. So I don't know man. I don't know who you know. But the people I know who ignored covid get wrecked by it. Every family touched.

VancouverMan 3y ago
Of the people I referred to, many were in Canada (primarily BC, Ontario, Alberta, and Quebec) at the time, but they're from a wide variety of ancestries, nations-of-origin, and socioeconomic statuses. Most of the rest were living primarily in the US, Europe, Australia, and India at the time. A small number were in other Asian nations. The least-fearful subset tended to be in Ontario and Alberta, the central US, Eastern Europe, and India. The most-fearful subset were in BC, Quebec, urban Ontario, the coastal and urban areas of the US, and urban Western Europe. For the grandparents you mention in the cases you're aware of, were they in care homes of some sort? In Canada, for example, neglect was allegedly a serious problem at some facilities, even leading to significant numbers of deaths there among the elderly: "Patients died from neglect, not COVID-19, in Ontario LTC homes, military report finds: ‘All they needed was water and a wipe down’" https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadian-military-report-documents-deplorable-conditions-at-two/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadian-mili... Could something like that have been going on in the region you mention?
- chimprich 3y ago
  Please don't push this anti-scientific bullshit here based on your anecdata. Millions of people died from covid; the vast majority weren't all neglected in nursing homes. I personally knew someone in their 40s who died and two others around the same age who got hospitalised. I knew several older people who died; I don't know how fearful they were of the disease, but given that it killed them they would have been right to have scared of it. The mumbo jumbo idea that people were avoiding getting sick through positive thinking is nonsense.
  - sceptical 3y ago
    And yet you want people to trust your anecdata.
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      Which of these two commenters would be more likely to suggest you ignore both the anecdata and trust only the actual data?
      - VancouverMan 3y ago
        We have to be very cautious with "the actual data" from that time period. The death counts from Canada's government officials from that era are very questionable, for example. As early as June of 2020, the "public health" authority in Canada's most-populous city (and the 4th highest population in North America) revealed that the counting of deaths was being done using a methodology that sounds quite dubious: "Individuals who have died with COVID-19, but not as a result of COVID-19 are included in the case counts for COVID-19 deaths in Toronto." https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/1275888390060285967 https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/127588839006028596... BC was using a dubious counting approach as of April 2022: "Fewer than half of COVID-19 deaths reported since B.C. changed counting methods were caused by the disease" https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fewer-than-half-of-covid-19-deaths-reported-since-b-c-changed-counting-methods-were-caused-by-the-disease-1.5920782 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fewer-than-half-of-covid-19-deaths-rep... Alberta was also using a dubious death-counting approach, as described in this April 2021 article: "According to Dr. Deena Hinshaw, any death that has been flagged where COVID-19 is a possible cause is included in the initial count, even if the official cause of death remains unknown." https://globalnews.ca/news/7814731/alberta-determine-covid-19-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7814731/alberta-determine-covid-1... Quebec's counting of deaths as of May 2022 (and apparently before that) was also dubious: "Quebec’s interim public health director, Dr. Luc Boileau, has acknowledged that the province has seen a “huge” number of deaths linked to COVID-19. Quebec’s high death toll, he said last Thursday, is explained by the fact the province counts a COVID-19 death as any death involving someone who has the disease. He said a government study from January indicated that around 30 per cent of the official COVID-19 deaths in the province’s hospitals involved people who tested positive for COVID-19 but whose principle cause of death was not the disease. He said about 40 per cent to 50 per cent of official COVID-19 deaths in the province involve people who had the disease but who died of other causes." https://globalnews.ca/news/8801205/quebec-still-reporting-dozens-covid-deaths-dailydeaths-daily/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8801205/quebec-still-reporting-do... As you can see, "the actual data" from that time period are essentially garbage, which explains why they often don't correspond well to real-world observations.
autoexec 3y ago
Yeah, we have plenty of data showing that people who ignored covid and didn't get the vaccine got outcomes far worse than the people who got vaccinated and took things seriously. I'd sooner listen to that than anecdotal evidence, but if people want anecdotal evidence I'm pretty sure they haven't run out of Herman Cain Awards

VancouverMan 3y ago

Of the people I referred to, many were in Canada (primarily BC, Ontario, Alberta, and Quebec) at the time, but they're from a wide variety of ancestries, nations-of-origin, and socioeconomic statuses. Most of the rest were living primarily in the US, Europe, Australia, and India at the time. A small number were in other Asian nations. The least-fearful subset tended to be in Ontario and Alberta, the central US, Eastern Europe, and India. The most-fearful subset were in BC, Quebec, urban Ontario, the coastal and urban areas of the US, and urban Western Europe. For the grandparents you mention in the cases you're aware of, were they in care homes of some sort? In Canada, for example, neglect was allegedly a serious problem at some facilities, even leading to significant numbers of deaths there among the elderly: "Patients died from neglect, not COVID-19, in Ontario LTC homes, military report finds: ‘All they needed was water and a wipe down’" https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadian-military-report-documents-deplorable-conditions-at-two/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadian-mili... Could something like that have been going on in the region you mention?

chimprich 3y ago
Please don't push this anti-scientific bullshit here based on your anecdata. Millions of people died from covid; the vast majority weren't all neglected in nursing homes. I personally knew someone in their 40s who died and two others around the same age who got hospitalised. I knew several older people who died; I don't know how fearful they were of the disease, but given that it killed them they would have been right to have scared of it. The mumbo jumbo idea that people were avoiding getting sick through positive thinking is nonsense.
- sceptical 3y ago
  And yet you want people to trust your anecdata.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    Which of these two commenters would be more likely to suggest you ignore both the anecdata and trust only the actual data?
    - VancouverMan 3y ago
      We have to be very cautious with "the actual data" from that time period. The death counts from Canada's government officials from that era are very questionable, for example. As early as June of 2020, the "public health" authority in Canada's most-populous city (and the 4th highest population in North America) revealed that the counting of deaths was being done using a methodology that sounds quite dubious: "Individuals who have died with COVID-19, but not as a result of COVID-19 are included in the case counts for COVID-19 deaths in Toronto." https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/1275888390060285967 https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/127588839006028596... BC was using a dubious counting approach as of April 2022: "Fewer than half of COVID-19 deaths reported since B.C. changed counting methods were caused by the disease" https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fewer-than-half-of-covid-19-deaths-reported-since-b-c-changed-counting-methods-were-caused-by-the-disease-1.5920782 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fewer-than-half-of-covid-19-deaths-rep... Alberta was also using a dubious death-counting approach, as described in this April 2021 article: "According to Dr. Deena Hinshaw, any death that has been flagged where COVID-19 is a possible cause is included in the initial count, even if the official cause of death remains unknown." https://globalnews.ca/news/7814731/alberta-determine-covid-19-death/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7814731/alberta-determine-covid-1... Quebec's counting of deaths as of May 2022 (and apparently before that) was also dubious: "Quebec’s interim public health director, Dr. Luc Boileau, has acknowledged that the province has seen a “huge” number of deaths linked to COVID-19. Quebec’s high death toll, he said last Thursday, is explained by the fact the province counts a COVID-19 death as any death involving someone who has the disease. He said a government study from January indicated that around 30 per cent of the official COVID-19 deaths in the province’s hospitals involved people who tested positive for COVID-19 but whose principle cause of death was not the disease. He said about 40 per cent to 50 per cent of official COVID-19 deaths in the province involve people who had the disease but who died of other causes." https://globalnews.ca/news/8801205/quebec-still-reporting-dozens-covid-deaths-dailydeaths-daily/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8801205/quebec-still-reporting-do... As you can see, "the actual data" from that time period are essentially garbage, which explains why they often don't correspond well to real-world observations.

autoexec 3y ago

Yeah, we have plenty of data showing that people who ignored covid and didn't get the vaccine got outcomes far worse than the people who got vaccinated and took things seriously. I'd sooner listen to that than anecdotal evidence, but if people want anecdotal evidence I'm pretty sure they haven't run out of Herman Cain Awards