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> CI/CD, which translates into "figure out how to keep an overstaffed engineering department occupied long after they delivered the working system". CI is only

> CI/CD, which translates into "figure out how to keep an overstaffed engineering department occupied long after they delivered the working system". CI is only about what happens before software is delivered. And I don't see what CD has to do with staff size. I think you're pointing out valid problems and misattributing their causes.

geodel 3y ago
Well, looking into bookish definition of CI/CD will not help here. In real world I regularly CI/CD pipelines reflects to delivery/product managers how fast features are churned out by team to be presented to business. A 10K ft view of CI/CD is often used by group leads, executives to show whats being achieved even at company level.
- UK-AL 3y ago
  CI/CD is making sure your code is always in a production ready state and validating with tests and other tools automatically.
  - geodel 3y ago
    Okay. So? JIRA is supposed to track work that is to be done. Now JIRA is used to generate work when none exist because if there are hundred JIRA ticket resolved this week there must have lot of work done.
bane 3y ago
Making an example up that I don't know to be true, but please just go with it: Google likely has a dedicated team who do nothing but tweak the front page of www.google.com I bet there's a Kanban-like board somewhere within that team with tickets like "change the button for image search to new branding icon" and "move the "About" button to the left-most upper corner from the right-most upper corner." "Make the corners on the search box more round" or whatever. Looking at the page now, somebody definitely had to generate work, and some poor front-end developer definitely had to perform the work to put the "Our third decade of climate action: join us". Every couple of years the team will take on some kind of task like moving the front-page to a new internal framework, or connecting it to some new search/advertising API. Remember when google would show real-time search results as you typed? "Let's put a Pacman game as the logo!" Here's Google's front page from 10 years ago https://web.archive.org/web/20130101000532/http://www.google.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130101000532/http://www.google... Somebody is making those changes, they exist. The decision to CD that page keeps them around. However, there is effectively almost no perceptible difference in the program performance, features, capabilities, or really even the aesthetics of that page in that time period to the user. It should be on maintenance mode with checking in on it being a part-time job for a single person. I bet that there's more than a dozen people who's sole job it is to keep that page "fresh". That's how CD results in inflated team sizes -- it's the "C". CI/CD never makes it over the wall into CM (continuous maintenance) and as a result becomes it.

geodel 3y ago

Well, looking into bookish definition of CI/CD will not help here. In real world I regularly CI/CD pipelines reflects to delivery/product managers how fast features are churned out by team to be presented to business. A 10K ft view of CI/CD is often used by group leads, executives to show whats being achieved even at company level.

UK-AL 3y ago
CI/CD is making sure your code is always in a production ready state and validating with tests and other tools automatically.
- geodel 3y ago
  Okay. So? JIRA is supposed to track work that is to be done. Now JIRA is used to generate work when none exist because if there are hundred JIRA ticket resolved this week there must have lot of work done.

bane 3y ago

Making an example up that I don't know to be true, but please just go with it: Google likely has a dedicated team who do nothing but tweak the front page of www.google.com I bet there's a Kanban-like board somewhere within that team with tickets like "change the button for image search to new branding icon" and "move the "About" button to the left-most upper corner from the right-most upper corner." "Make the corners on the search box more round" or whatever. Looking at the page now, somebody definitely had to generate work, and some poor front-end developer definitely had to perform the work to put the "Our third decade of climate action: join us". Every couple of years the team will take on some kind of task like moving the front-page to a new internal framework, or connecting it to some new search/advertising API. Remember when google would show real-time search results as you typed? "Let's put a Pacman game as the logo!" Here's Google's front page from 10 years ago https://web.archive.org/web/20130101000532/http://www.google.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130101000532/http://www.google... Somebody is making those changes, they exist. The decision to CD that page keeps them around. However, there is effectively almost no perceptible difference in the program performance, features, capabilities, or really even the aesthetics of that page in that time period to the user. It should be on maintenance mode with checking in on it being a part-time job for a single person. I bet that there's more than a dozen people who's sole job it is to keep that page "fresh". That's how CD results in inflated team sizes -- it's the "C". CI/CD never makes it over the wall into CM (continuous maintenance) and as a result becomes it.