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Thanks for the correction / clarification. I agree 2016-2021 isn't really a long time! Of course the Qualcomm's use of Nuvia cores is subject to the ongoing le

Thanks for the correction / clarification. I agree 2016-2021 isn't really a long time! Of course the Qualcomm's use of Nuvia cores is subject to the ongoing legal case so it's difficult to see how that will work out.

hajile 3y ago
Qualcomm's Znew proposal is basically an attempt to skirt ARM royalties while keeping a design that is very close to ARM64 (basically, throw out 16-bit instructions then add some new modes and complex 32-bit instructions ARM uses to make up for it). This smells of them trying to convert Nuvia from ARM to RISC-V so the entire Nuvia case basically goes away before they get forced to pay out a lot of money.
- klelatti 3y ago
  Arm's case isn't about the ISA, it's about use of IP developed by Nuvia with help from Arm under Nuvia's Arm license being used in a way that isn't compatible with the terms of Nuvia's license. IANAL but I'd be astonished if they get away with that IP making its way into RISC-V designs, if Arm win. Plus, they won't have anything RISC-V based available in anywhere near the required timescales. They're still arguing about the ISA after all!
  - hajile 3y ago
    ARM's case is that a uarch is necessarily tied to its ISA and that their license isn't transferrable because the contract plainly says so. If Qualcomm can show up and say "here's our uarch running a different ISA", it disproves that point and at most leaves dispute about some patents where Qualcomm can probably get a quick settlement for far less than the royalties would cost them. The whole point of Znew is to transform RISC-V into something so similar to ARM64 that they can swap out the decoder and be good to go.
lizknope 3y ago
Qualcomm was still developing a 32-bit ARM core and then Apple came out with their internally developed 64-bit ARM CPU and surprised everyone. This Qualcomm exec got shoved aside after making this statement. https://www.pcworld.com/article/447916/apples-64bit-a7-chip-a-marketing-gimmick-qualcomm-exec-says.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/447916/apples-64bit-a7-chip-... Qualcomm quickly switched to licensing a 64-bit core from ARM which was the Snapdragon 810 that had overheating problems. After that the next Snapdragon 820 with Qualcomm's internally developed 64-bit CPU was fine. That same team was also developing their ARM server CPU but that whole project got cancelled and the team got let go around 2018.
- wmf 3y ago
  But then every generation after the 820 used a Cortex core so their in-house core only lasted one year.
  - lizknope 3y ago
    Yeah, that team switched exclusively to the server chip which was cancelled a few years later and they laid off 500 engineers in that team.

hajile 3y ago

Qualcomm's Znew proposal is basically an attempt to skirt ARM royalties while keeping a design that is very close to ARM64 (basically, throw out 16-bit instructions then add some new modes and complex 32-bit instructions ARM uses to make up for it). This smells of them trying to convert Nuvia from ARM to RISC-V so the entire Nuvia case basically goes away before they get forced to pay out a lot of money.

klelatti 3y ago
Arm's case isn't about the ISA, it's about use of IP developed by Nuvia with help from Arm under Nuvia's Arm license being used in a way that isn't compatible with the terms of Nuvia's license. IANAL but I'd be astonished if they get away with that IP making its way into RISC-V designs, if Arm win. Plus, they won't have anything RISC-V based available in anywhere near the required timescales. They're still arguing about the ISA after all!
- hajile 3y ago
  ARM's case is that a uarch is necessarily tied to its ISA and that their license isn't transferrable because the contract plainly says so. If Qualcomm can show up and say "here's our uarch running a different ISA", it disproves that point and at most leaves dispute about some patents where Qualcomm can probably get a quick settlement for far less than the royalties would cost them. The whole point of Znew is to transform RISC-V into something so similar to ARM64 that they can swap out the decoder and be good to go.

lizknope 3y ago

Qualcomm was still developing a 32-bit ARM core and then Apple came out with their internally developed 64-bit ARM CPU and surprised everyone. This Qualcomm exec got shoved aside after making this statement. https://www.pcworld.com/article/447916/apples-64bit-a7-chip-a-marketing-gimmick-qualcomm-exec-says.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/447916/apples-64bit-a7-chip-... Qualcomm quickly switched to licensing a 64-bit core from ARM which was the Snapdragon 810 that had overheating problems. After that the next Snapdragon 820 with Qualcomm's internally developed 64-bit CPU was fine. That same team was also developing their ARM server CPU but that whole project got cancelled and the team got let go around 2018.

wmf 3y ago
But then every generation after the 820 used a Cortex core so their in-house core only lasted one year.
- lizknope 3y ago
  Yeah, that team switched exclusively to the server chip which was cancelled a few years later and they laid off 500 engineers in that team.