4 ms·

Are you in the USA? Apparently the american media is particularly pro-israel. I am in Australia and find the media is very pro-israel but is happy to also say t

Are you in the USA? Apparently the american media is particularly pro-israel. I am in Australia and find the media is very pro-israel but is happy to also say that israel’s actions are unsavory. I understand that Europe is much more balanced than Australia on this one.

kossTKR 3y ago
Great question, i'm in a scandinavian country that is what is so surprising to me. I have family both here in the US and the UK, and everywhere seems to be the same. It's almost like there's been some secret doctrine implemented. As an example the "relatively" moderate labour parties of both Denmark and the UK as come out as pretty extreme militaristic hardliner supporters of Israel doubting the effectiveness of ceasefires, using vulgar language about the Palestinians and refusing to acknowledge any crimes committed by "their side". This is very surprising to me as i have family who fled the London bombings in WW2 and have always talked about the extreme importance of thinking clearly in conflicts, being merciful, never being going "hardliner" and most importantly being sceptical of military industrial complexes.
- maksimur 3y ago
  Can confirm it's the same Black Mirror level here, another European country. This is the third time I see this worrisome pattern in the last few years. I don't exactly understand what's going on.
  - logicchains 3y ago
    >I don't exactly understand what's going on. What do you think Jeffrey Epstein's island was being used for? Do you think he was filming rich and influential people sleeping with underage girls purely for his own amusement, with no intention to generate blackmail material on anyone? If not, who do you think inherited that blackmail material when he passed away under suspicious circumstances?
- m000 3y ago
  > It's almost like there's been some secret doctrine implemented. At least during Cold War, people were aware that there's a Cold War going on. Now everything is supposed to be fine and dandy, yet it feels we're constantly subjected to psy-ops even from "our side". I don't think that the rise of conspiracy theories in recent years is a coincidence: Something is in play, some people can "sense it" but there's just not enough information to pin it down. Moreover, existing preoccupations are exploited to push these people to fringe theories and make them a laughing stock.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    There is no conspiracy theory needed; people are generally bigoted and biased, and the fact that the latest escalation was set off by a very brutal terrorist attack (or series thereof) by Hamas, a terrorist organization that doesn't really give off "freedom fighter" vibes, and which has a religious extremism component than titillates and scares people, only exacerbates the issue. This is just the past few decades of Western coverage of this conflict on steroids, or exaggerated so much that the bias is becoming obvious to people who never paid much attention before.
- __turbobrew__ 3y ago
  If you compare how many Palestinians are in power positions globally vs how many Israelis are in power positions globally it makes sense.
denton-scratch 3y ago
> I understand that Europe is much more balanced than Australia on this one. I'm in the UK. It depends what you mean by "balanced". What I'm seeing on TV news has been changing. At first, they didn't try to link Hamas to terrorism. They've been berated by Israelis for that; so now every time they mention Hamas, they add a clause like "Hamas, an organisation that is proscribed in the UK and many other countries for terrorism". Apart from that, the "balance" I'm seeing is a kind of passive-aggressive pseudo-balance. For example, they do report statements from Israeli leaders calling for the expulsion of all Palestinians from Gaza; in some cases, favourably (as if moving two million people from Gaza into refugee camps in the Sinai desert is a sensible compromise). So, they express hope that Egypt will open the border at Rafah, which is exactly what these Israeli extremists want. There's no serious questioning or investigation of the claims from the IDF or Israeli government. You just see lots of wailing grandmas (in Israel and in Gaza), which seems to be the MSM's standard way of reporting conflicts these days. So it's war-porn.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  BTW, the other thing that's "odd" is that all the channels have their tone in sync; BBC, ITV and CH4 change their tone in lockstep.
- starik36 3y ago
  Which Israeli leader called for the expulsion of all Palestinians from Gaza? I haven't heard or read any of that.
  - Stevvo 3y ago
    https://twitter.com/MisgavINS/status/1714183691574948036 https://twitter.com/MisgavINS/status/1714183691574948036 Think tank of a former PM.
    - smsm42 3y ago
      I think there's a big difference between "Israeli leaders call for expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza" (presenting it as if it were an official governmental policy, which it never was), and a single paper by a think tank - no idea which "former PM" you are referring to, none of the people affiliated with Misgav[1] seem to fit this description. In any case, there's some number of people thinking evacuating Gaza is desireable, in Israel - and much larger number of people thinking getting rid of Jews in Palestine (you do realize that's what "Free Palestine" and "from the river to the sea" means, do you), both in Middle East and in Europe and on any college campus in the US. Neither is likely to happen, but the latter is the official political position of the government of Gaza (Hamas) and the former is no more than a single paper by a single think tank. [1] https://www.izs.org.il/board-of-directors/ https://www.izs.org.il/board-of-directors/
smsm42 3y ago
> Apparently the american media is particularly pro-israel. Is it the same media that reprinted without any checking Hamas claim that Israel bombed Al-Ahli hospital and 500 people were dead and over 600 wounded (the real situation was an Islamic Jihad rocket fell in the parking lot near the hospital, and likely about 10 to 50 people were hurt by it), and run with it for days trying to present it as if it was reliable information? Or there's some other US press which I'm not aware of? Some of this "particularly pro-Israel" press even refuses to name Hamas a terrorist organization. I don't know how much pro-Israel one can be than that.

kossTKR 3y ago

Great question, i'm in a scandinavian country that is what is so surprising to me. I have family both here in the US and the UK, and everywhere seems to be the same. It's almost like there's been some secret doctrine implemented. As an example the "relatively" moderate labour parties of both Denmark and the UK as come out as pretty extreme militaristic hardliner supporters of Israel doubting the effectiveness of ceasefires, using vulgar language about the Palestinians and refusing to acknowledge any crimes committed by "their side". This is very surprising to me as i have family who fled the London bombings in WW2 and have always talked about the extreme importance of thinking clearly in conflicts, being merciful, never being going "hardliner" and most importantly being sceptical of military industrial complexes.

maksimur 3y ago
Can confirm it's the same Black Mirror level here, another European country. This is the third time I see this worrisome pattern in the last few years. I don't exactly understand what's going on.
- logicchains 3y ago
  >I don't exactly understand what's going on. What do you think Jeffrey Epstein's island was being used for? Do you think he was filming rich and influential people sleeping with underage girls purely for his own amusement, with no intention to generate blackmail material on anyone? If not, who do you think inherited that blackmail material when he passed away under suspicious circumstances?
m000 3y ago
> It's almost like there's been some secret doctrine implemented. At least during Cold War, people were aware that there's a Cold War going on. Now everything is supposed to be fine and dandy, yet it feels we're constantly subjected to psy-ops even from "our side". I don't think that the rise of conspiracy theories in recent years is a coincidence: Something is in play, some people can "sense it" but there's just not enough information to pin it down. Moreover, existing preoccupations are exploited to push these people to fringe theories and make them a laughing stock.
- catlover76 3y ago
  There is no conspiracy theory needed; people are generally bigoted and biased, and the fact that the latest escalation was set off by a very brutal terrorist attack (or series thereof) by Hamas, a terrorist organization that doesn't really give off "freedom fighter" vibes, and which has a religious extremism component than titillates and scares people, only exacerbates the issue. This is just the past few decades of Western coverage of this conflict on steroids, or exaggerated so much that the bias is becoming obvious to people who never paid much attention before.
__turbobrew__ 3y ago
If you compare how many Palestinians are in power positions globally vs how many Israelis are in power positions globally it makes sense.

denton-scratch 3y ago

> I understand that Europe is much more balanced than Australia on this one. I'm in the UK. It depends what you mean by "balanced". What I'm seeing on TV news has been changing. At first, they didn't try to link Hamas to terrorism. They've been berated by Israelis for that; so now every time they mention Hamas, they add a clause like "Hamas, an organisation that is proscribed in the UK and many other countries for terrorism". Apart from that, the "balance" I'm seeing is a kind of passive-aggressive pseudo-balance. For example, they do report statements from Israeli leaders calling for the expulsion of all Palestinians from Gaza; in some cases, favourably (as if moving two million people from Gaza into refugee camps in the Sinai desert is a sensible compromise). So, they express hope that Egypt will open the border at Rafah, which is exactly what these Israeli extremists want. There's no serious questioning or investigation of the claims from the IDF or Israeli government. You just see lots of wailing grandmas (in Israel and in Gaza), which seems to be the MSM's standard way of reporting conflicts these days. So it's war-porn.

denton-scratch 3y ago
BTW, the other thing that's "odd" is that all the channels have their tone in sync; BBC, ITV and CH4 change their tone in lockstep.
starik36 3y ago
Which Israeli leader called for the expulsion of all Palestinians from Gaza? I haven't heard or read any of that.
- Stevvo 3y ago
  https://twitter.com/MisgavINS/status/1714183691574948036 https://twitter.com/MisgavINS/status/1714183691574948036 Think tank of a former PM.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    I think there's a big difference between "Israeli leaders call for expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza" (presenting it as if it were an official governmental policy, which it never was), and a single paper by a think tank - no idea which "former PM" you are referring to, none of the people affiliated with Misgav[1] seem to fit this description. In any case, there's some number of people thinking evacuating Gaza is desireable, in Israel - and much larger number of people thinking getting rid of Jews in Palestine (you do realize that's what "Free Palestine" and "from the river to the sea" means, do you), both in Middle East and in Europe and on any college campus in the US. Neither is likely to happen, but the latter is the official political position of the government of Gaza (Hamas) and the former is no more than a single paper by a single think tank. [1] https://www.izs.org.il/board-of-directors/ https://www.izs.org.il/board-of-directors/

smsm42 3y ago

> Apparently the american media is particularly pro-israel. Is it the same media that reprinted without any checking Hamas claim that Israel bombed Al-Ahli hospital and 500 people were dead and over 600 wounded (the real situation was an Islamic Jihad rocket fell in the parking lot near the hospital, and likely about 10 to 50 people were hurt by it), and run with it for days trying to present it as if it was reliable information? Or there's some other US press which I'm not aware of? Some of this "particularly pro-Israel" press even refuses to name Hamas a terrorist organization. I don't know how much pro-Israel one can be than that.