4 ms·

It's not really a console though.

garfij 3y ago
Why isn't it? My gut reaction is that I don't agree with you, but I can't immediately put into words why. I think it's possibly that I view a "console" for gaming as a combination of a form factor and development environment and this seems to fit that bill. I'm interested to hear the other side though.
- Novosell 3y ago
  To me a console comes with a lot of restrictions. Good luck loading entirely arbitrary code on your PS5. This doesn't hold as true for older consoles, but they still hardly try to help you. Getting a normal desktop session on the Deck is trivial. At that point, what's the difference between me opening Big Picture Mode on my desktop PC and calling it a console? The fact it's not a static hardware stack, I guess? I think we'll struggle to nail down what a "console" is, cause the steam deck has a lot more in common with my desktop PC, primarily used for gaming, than it does with a NES.
zirgs 3y ago
You could install Linux on a PS3 - it is still a game console, because that's its primary purpose.
- Novosell 3y ago
  You could, before they removed that feature. They want it to be very locked down, Valve obviously does not. Valve has made a very gaming-tailored machine, yeah. But due to still being very easy to do general computer things on I wouldn't classify it as a console. Otherwise, are stationary PCs custom built for only gaming, such as those used at e-sports tournaments, consoles? They don't have the same customized software stack, but neither does the Deck in comparison to a PS5, imo.
  - zem 3y ago
    so it's not a "console" in the pejorative sense of "locked down gaming device some company is trying to extract rents from", but it definitely is in the operational sense of "small device dedicated to gaming". the deck goes a bit beyond a general purpose pc because it does have a vertically integrated hardware and software stack that is optimised for playing games, even if they haven't restricted other uses.
    - Novosell 3y ago
      Aye, there is something to be said for integrated and purpose made software+hardware making a console, but you can barely compare the software of a Steam Deck to that of something like a NES. As far as I'm aware, a NES doesn't even really have any software, all the software is on the cartridge. A custom PC running Steam in Big Picture Mode will be far more similar to a Steam Deck than a NES is to a Steam Deck. Is the ROG Ally a console? What if I load SteamOS 3.0 on it? Is the PS3 with Linux on it still a console? Are gaming-focused phones consoles? They have vertically integrated hardware and software, and are made with gaming as a focus yet can be used as somewhat general purpose devices, just like the Steam Deck.
      - zem 3y ago
        ah, i see your point, the steam deck tech stack is not designed from end to end as a gaming system; rather it specialises a broader linux stack. i wonder how much difference that will make a couple of generations down the line, but for now i agree the NES probably does do a much better job of gaming performance for given hardware specs.

Why isn't it? My gut reaction is that I don't agree with you, but I can't immediately put into words why. I think it's possibly that I view a "console" for gaming as a combination of a form factor and development environment and this seems to fit that bill. I'm interested to hear the other side though.

Novosell 3y ago
To me a console comes with a lot of restrictions. Good luck loading entirely arbitrary code on your PS5. This doesn't hold as true for older consoles, but they still hardly try to help you. Getting a normal desktop session on the Deck is trivial. At that point, what's the difference between me opening Big Picture Mode on my desktop PC and calling it a console? The fact it's not a static hardware stack, I guess? I think we'll struggle to nail down what a "console" is, cause the steam deck has a lot more in common with my desktop PC, primarily used for gaming, than it does with a NES.

zirgs 3y ago

You could install Linux on a PS3 - it is still a game console, because that's its primary purpose.

Novosell 3y ago
You could, before they removed that feature. They want it to be very locked down, Valve obviously does not. Valve has made a very gaming-tailored machine, yeah. But due to still being very easy to do general computer things on I wouldn't classify it as a console. Otherwise, are stationary PCs custom built for only gaming, such as those used at e-sports tournaments, consoles? They don't have the same customized software stack, but neither does the Deck in comparison to a PS5, imo.
- zem 3y ago
  so it's not a "console" in the pejorative sense of "locked down gaming device some company is trying to extract rents from", but it definitely is in the operational sense of "small device dedicated to gaming". the deck goes a bit beyond a general purpose pc because it does have a vertically integrated hardware and software stack that is optimised for playing games, even if they haven't restricted other uses.
  - Novosell 3y ago
    Aye, there is something to be said for integrated and purpose made software+hardware making a console, but you can barely compare the software of a Steam Deck to that of something like a NES. As far as I'm aware, a NES doesn't even really have any software, all the software is on the cartridge. A custom PC running Steam in Big Picture Mode will be far more similar to a Steam Deck than a NES is to a Steam Deck. Is the ROG Ally a console? What if I load SteamOS 3.0 on it? Is the PS3 with Linux on it still a console? Are gaming-focused phones consoles? They have vertically integrated hardware and software, and are made with gaming as a focus yet can be used as somewhat general purpose devices, just like the Steam Deck.
    - zem 3y ago
      ah, i see your point, the steam deck tech stack is not designed from end to end as a gaming system; rather it specialises a broader linux stack. i wonder how much difference that will make a couple of generations down the line, but for now i agree the NES probably does do a much better job of gaming performance for given hardware specs.